Judging trend for figure?

[Gin]

*This thread is not intended to start a debate on what look is superior. :p

I am curious to know if those who attended the show were able to identify a trend in judging preference for body type?

In the few pics I've seen it seems like some of the more highly conditioned (harder/vascular) athletes were lower in the line up relative to a slightly fuller presentation. It's hard to get a good feel based on a few online images. I'd love some input from those who saw it firsthand.

[Shelly]

i wasnt there but from the pics and the feedback ive heard id have to agree with you Gin....and how you perceived things.

[Betsy]

id def agree as well, BUT i also think that going SOLELY off of pics is VERY deceiving.... i think they can make people look better OR worse then in person... Lets hear some IN PERSON feedback! :popcorn:

[Gert]

The trend last year was harder and a little bit more muscular, looking at some pics from last year. A lot off european girls prepared for that and were very suprised to see a different trend this year. If the judges wanna play a game thats fine but they should consider the fact that a lot of these girls payed a small fortune to compete in this show. And when you are on stage and find out that the judges looking for a totally different body then what you have prepared for then that's very frustrating.

[AnneP]

Actually, to be honest, this softer - non-muscle - trend was already last year. But in my opinion, it really went to even more skinny look this year and it is confusing how +12kg girls places better than good conditioned girls who have a bit more muscles (i am NOT talking here about giants.) Feels like all judging is - muscles and good condition --- down in placements and in last call out. And things like symmetry,harmony,proportions,balance, muscle development,condition etc are not even compared.

But looking at video clips and photos, I am really sad that figure took steps to even more skinny and softer look. Is this sport any more?

[Mats E.]

The trend last year was harder and a little bit more muscular, looking at some pics from last year. A lot off european girls prepared for that and were very suprised to see a different trend this year. If the judges wanna play a game thats fine but they should consider the fact that a lot of these girls payed a small fortune to compete in this show. And when you are on stage and find out that the judges looking for a totally different body then what you have prepared for then that's very frustrating.

I dont fully agree on this comment. The trend last year wre the same. One example: That years Brazilian World Champion with a fantastic physique ended outside the finals. And also some other girls that were bigger and harder.

But still it was possible to have some muscularity but not be too hard and vascular and be in the top. I guess that would have been possible this year too, but I have not seen any of those type of girls.

It seems to just have been girls that were big, hard and vascular and those that you could ask if they have been to the gym at all... and in comparison the judges went for the second grooup.

[Katerina]

I competed at the figure portion of the show - it was quite interesting it really was - in person - the figure women were amazing looking looking well conditioned - the trend in my opinion was they wanted a softer look-

i also have to stick in my two cents for what its worth - that they didnt in my opinion give the figure girls enough time on stage at all- i am not sure of the total count of girls - 150 + ???- we were rushed on and off stage - i barely got on stage and turned around - and the next girl was walking out -figure A started at roughly 825 pm ( i didnt check my watch) I was in my cab going back to hotel at 11pm after the show and audience was dismissed - it just didnt seem right for all of us to put so much time and effort and couldnt even show it off :(



*This thread is not intended to start a debate on what look is superior. :p

I am curious to know if those who attended the show were able to identify a trend in judging preference for body type?

In the few pics I've seen it seems like some of the more highly conditioned (harder/vascular) athletes were lower in the line up relative to a slightly fuller presentation. It's hard to get a good feel based on a few online images. I'd love some input from those who saw it firsthand.

[AnneP]

It seems to just have been girls that were big, hard and vascular and those that you could ask if they have been to the gym at all... and in comparison the judges went for the second grooup.

Actually there were some non-vascular, not so hard, not so big girls with great structure, symmetry and balance, and they still placed lower than these "have u ever trained at gym"- girls.... all in all, I got an impression that they prefer even more skinny and soft look in figure than they did for examble last year?

I do understand that a contest is always between the ones who are in lineup and it is not any sign from judges "this is perfect in figure" but it is "this is best today". But even if I take it that way, I cannot stop wondering this skinny or/and soft look in top of many classes.

[Mats E.]

Actually there were some non-vascular, not so hard, not so big girls with great structure, symmetry and balance, and they still placed lower than these "have u ever trained at gym"- girls.... all in all, I got an impression that they prefer even more skinny and soft look in figure than they did for examble last year?

I do understand that a contest is always between the ones who are in lineup and it is not any sign from judges "this is perfect in figure" but it is "this is best today". But even if I take it that way, I cannot stop wondering this skinny look in top.

I probably have missed those girls, I only checked the european girls and the ones in the top... And I agree that the ones in the top should not be there if there is a bunch of girls in between those groups - not so vascular, not too big, but well balanced, symetrical and lean so you at least can se seperations in shoulders, abs, thighs.... At least at the level as Zivile, she is actually a girls that I think is at the limit on the lower side, but still very good.

[AnneP]

One thing that bothers me alot too is that everyone keep telling it is total package. I know and that what it should be. But watching these girls makes me wonder, is it that really? I mean symmetry, proportions, frames, lines, structure seem not be the factors they really look at?

Hmh, just wondering. I love judging in World Championships. Dont now get me wrong, I dont want see any roid-muscle-monsters either, but there basic things like symmetry, lines, balance etc has some influence and those are compared! There I see in the top girls with broad shoulders and x-frames, NO narrow shoulders and H-frames..

I need to add that I dont now mean with "skinny/soft" -look" every girl in top fives. There were some really good ones too!

[wilson6]

I cannot stop wondering this skinny or/and soft look in top of many classes

A comment was made on the Mayhem board comparing Zinville and Monica, pretty much underscores the above observation.

I was at the prejudging, about 4 feet from the stage. Zinville represents would I would expect in an IFBB Pro Bikini contest if such an event came to fruition. Monica Brant on the other hand is what I envision as a softer, but yet balanced figure physique. Anything less than that in my opinion is bikini.

Guess I'm old school, but in my opinion they are taking this less muscle, softer look too far. I'm not sure what the underlying motives are, probably a mix of things ranging from $$ to politics to political correctness, to what mainstream wants to look at, but at the expense of getting rid of muscle that in many minds relates to steroids, we are driving some of these genetically gifted women out of figure, or into mega cardio and extreme diets to fit into something that has swung too far in the other direction.

W6

[AnneP]

AMEN! Well written, that was kinda what I wanted to say, not so easy for me to explain in english.

[powergirl]

wilson6 i agree with you, i just commented on that exactly to my husband. i thought monica brought a nice package this year...athletic, round muscles, but tiny and DEFINITELY not 'jacked up'. LOL
many beautiful girls on stage but i didn't like the judging either....kudos to all the hard work tho for everyone on stage...

[KP DIVA]

*This thread is not intended to start a debate on what look is superior. :p

I am curious to know if those who attended the show were able to identify a trend in judging preference for body type?

In the few pics I've seen it seems like some of the more highly conditioned (harder/vascular) athletes were lower in the line up relative to a slightly fuller presentation. It's hard to get a good feel based on a few online images. I'd love some input from those who saw it firsthand.

IMO, it was a bit much. Yes, Mats is correct they didn't go super hard last year, however, the winners did look a little more conditioned. It's really hard to give examples w/o calling some of the competitors out. I will say I would have given the entire show to Heather Grace. Heather and 3-5th place in Class A were probably the only competitors who were actually rewarded for overall conditioning.

[teri]

A comment was made on the Mayhem board comparing Zinville and Monica, pretty much underscores the above observation.

I was at the prejudging, about 4 feet from the stage. Zinville represents would I would expect in an IFBB Pro Bikini contest if such an event came to fruition. Monica Brant on the other hand is what I envision as a softer, but yet balanced figure physique. Anything less than that in my opinion is bikini.

Guess I'm old school, but in my opinion they are taking this less muscle, softer look too far. I'm not sure what the underlying motives are, probably a mix of things ranging from $$ to politics to political correctness, to what mainstream wants to look at, but at the expense of getting rid of muscle that in many minds relates to steroids, we are driving some of these genetically gifted women out of figure, or into mega cardio and extreme diets to fit into something that has swung too far in the other direction.

W6

AMEN TO THAT....W6...:respect:

[CydneyWalker_etheric]

so the softer trend is still in effect, i see. it will be interesting to see how this trend continues during the rest of the year. i would like non-cellulite, excess fat, excess skin in the glute/hamstring area not to be rewarded with higher placings. but this trend is suppose to help us (figure) not diet down so hard and eliminate the need for technology being used.

if we don't like the the judging criteria and the placings of harder physiques, are we willing to switch federations? as if we don't compete and jump to another organization, that will send a clear message to the main organization. i am just putting it out there for thought and discussion. as i recognize npc as the largest and personally don't have an issue with the judging criteria. but it is clear that competitors and our fans are not enjoying this transition.

[FitFighter]

A comment was made on the Mayhem board comparing Zinville and Monica, pretty much underscores the above observation.

I was at the prejudging, about 4 feet from the stage. Zinville represents would I would expect in an IFBB Pro Bikini contest if such an event came to fruition. Monica Brant on the other hand is what I envision as a softer, but yet balanced figure physique. Anything less than that in my opinion is bikini.

Guess I'm old school, but in my opinion they are taking this less muscle, softer look too far. I'm not sure what the underlying motives are, probably a mix of things ranging from $$ to politics to political correctness, to what mainstream wants to look at, but at the expense of getting rid of muscle that in many minds relates to steroids, we are driving some of these genetically gifted women out of figure, or into mega cardio and extreme diets to fit into something that has swung too far in the other direction.

W6

I had the same observation, although I have only seen pictures, but I was wondering if my screen was distorted :confused: I thought the girls had skinny legs- was that just me??? I thought Monica looked great, as always with nice round delts and full quads. IMO she looked like a figure athlete. I'm not sure what you mean by 'soft' since Zeville looked pretty ripped to me :D

[4evrstroud]

I will be honest, I was upset when Zville beat Gina...Gina was lean and probably the fullest I have seen--- I looked at pics last night as close as possible, and I have come to a couple of conclusions of why they chose Zville. I don't want to truly point them out because I love both girls... I was just hoping that things would've taken a different approach towards 09 shows.

[Musclepapa John]

I competed at the figure portion of the show - it was quite interesting it really was - in person - the figure women were amazing looking looking well conditioned - the trend in my opinion was they wanted a softer look-

i also have to stick in my two cents for what its worth - that they didnt in my opinion give the figure girls enough time on stage at all- i am not sure of the total count of girls - 150 + ???- we were rushed on and off stage - i barely got on stage and turned around - and the next girl was walking out -figure A started at roughly 825 pm ( i didnt check my watch) I was in my cab going back to hotel at 11pm after the show and audience was dismissed - it just didnt seem right for all of us to put so much time and effort and couldnt even show it off :(

I hope you booked some photo and video shoots to show off that conditioning aside from the onstage time:popcorn:
If not find somebody as you are surely looking really good after the show and I know I for one would like to see ya shine for a longer than onstage time anyhow on your website, youtube, vimeo, or wherever:waving:

[KristenAnn]

I also thought that the placings were confusing in the AM. It looked like the harder athletes were usually penalized. I was trying to see if they were looking more at symmetry and shape, because the conditioning seemed to be very different in different girls (ex: F Class). But, the symmetry and shape of the girls in top placings was also very different, so I am still confused.
I am thinking that some of the bikini girls could have placed well in the figure portion, based on some of the figure placings (EX: overall and 2nd place winner in Bikini Short). Getting harder to know how to come in for figure these days... would be nice to know.
In IFBB, I thought that Monica and Gina looked FAB! In the AM, Shonda and Heather Grace had the best shape. Heather's conditioning was PERFECT!

[Suzanne]

I had the same observation, although I have only seen pictures, but I was wondering if my screen was distorted :confused: I thought the girls had skinny legs- was that just me??? I thought Monica looked great, as always with nice round delts and full quads. IMO she looked like a figure athlete. I'm not sure what you mean by 'soft' since Zeville looked pretty ripped to me :D

Ziville looked very soft. When watching her talk to Arnold you could see no shoulder or arm shape what so ever from the side

[250by55]

My wife and I made the trek to Columbus to support Monica Brandt. We had
a great view of the prejudging. There were several amateur competitors next
to us. We all lamented about the judging trend for figure.

It is time that Jim Manion, Sandy, and company step down as judges in this
sport. New blood with solid judging criteria for each event is needed. The athletes deserve it, so do the fans.

I(and those around me)support a muscular figure athlete-bodybuilding "lite"
is my term. Z'ville should be in a bikini contest not a figure "athlete" contest.

I have followed female physique contests for over twenty years. We as the fans who really pay for this sport need to demand new judges and clear definitions(no pun here)of the criteria for each physique-then let the athletes
compete and win on their package not on politics defined by Sandy and Company.

my 2cents,
250by55

[CydneyWalker_etheric]

My wife and I made the trek to Columbus to support Monica Brandt. We had
a great view of the prejudging. There were several amateur competitors next
to us. We all lamented about the judging trend for figure.

It is time that Jim Manion, Sandy, and company step down as judges in this
sport. New blood with solid judging criteria for each event is needed. The athletes deserve it, so do the fans.

I(and those around me)support a muscular figure athlete-bodybuilding "lite"
is my term. Z'ville should be in a bikini contest not a figure "athlete" contest.

I have followed female physique contests for over twenty years. We as the fans who really pay for this sport need to demand new judges and clear definitions(no pun here)of the criteria for each physique-then let the athletes
compete and win on their package not on politics defined by Sandy and Company.

my 2cents,
250by55


that's what i added in my comment. if the fans and competitors leave and go to another federation, then a change will have to come. it's all about dollars and cents. i have trained girls for bikini contests and muscle is not wanted for bikini. anyone who has been to a hawaiian tropic contest knows this. skinny with breast is the ideal for bikini. just look at what you see in the adds, even Z'ville would have been too muscular by those standards.

[teri]

i agree w/ur BODYBUILDING LITE=FIGURE...Im sorry to say that too me-IMO=that she looked a little too thin/boney for my taste of a Figure Competitor...I know im old school-but as said b4- i like ur bb lite comment.

[chicky9914]

What baffles me is that I with the introduction of bikini (although there has yet to be a pro card awarded) the figure gals would be bigger and harder again. This doesn't seem to be the case at all. Look at the difference in Amy Fry's physique from this past Olympia (where she placed 8th and in my opinion, looked MUCH better) to the Arnold where she placed 3rd. She is one of my favorites but just looked so skinny onstage.

(Wish I had better comparisons from then and now)

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_47I0094_SQBDSJVEXY.jpg

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_H4X0278_OJBYATRZHF.jpg

http://www.bodybuilding.com/contest_media/7892/1216/d/img_07821236382102.jpg

http://www.musculardevelopment.com/photos/transferred/_H4X1162_EYKDGXGGWI.jpg

[sandi_stuart]

This is somewhat off topic, but personally, I find it disturbing that both the winners of the Fitness and Figure international stated that they did 3+ hours of cardio/day. (Jen H was quoted on the cardio after winning the O..so I'm assuming she did the same for the Arnold)

If THAT is what it takes to rise to the top of this 'sport', then I'm out. I have a job, a husband, and a life. I don't have the time or the inclination do to that in preparation for a show....nor the desire to deal with the rebound afterward.

Sorry to digress.

[Musclepapa John]

As a judge Sandi, surely you know what you are looking for and if it takes three hours a day for 12-16 wks prior to be competitive and win the O or Arnold I bet you would do it:respect:

This is somewhat off topic, but personally, I find it disturbing that both the winners of the Fitness and Figure international stated that they did 3+ hours of cardio/day. (Jen H was quoted on the cardio after winning the O..so I'm assuming she did the same for the Arnold)

If THAT is what it takes to rise to the top of this 'sport', then I'm out. I have a job, a husband, and a life. I don't have the time or the inclination do to that in preparation for a show....nor the desire to deal with the rebound afterward.

Sorry to digress.

[chicky9914]

This is somewhat off topic, but personally, I find it disturbing that both the winners of the Fitness and Figure international stated that they did 3+ hours of cardio/day. (Jen H was quoted on the cardio after winning the O..so I'm assuming she did the same for the Arnold)

If THAT is what it takes to rise to the top of this 'sport', then I'm out. I have a job, a husband, and a life. I don't have the time or the inclination do to that in preparation for a show....nor the desire to deal with the rebound afterward.

Sorry to digress.

I wonder if some of that was done to 'burn some muscle.' Both had a lot more muscle on their frames back in the day

[wilson6]

It takes only what it takes. They are many ways to skin a cat. The shapers are big on cardio as a way to burn muscle. It is being used to take a physique out of its natural realm, ie, purposely tearing it down to fit these new judging criteria. While it may work in the short run, in the end one ends up with a body devoid of muscle, overtrained, ready to add fat faster than lightening through a phone line, and a world of long-term psychological, eating disorder/metabolic hurt.

The long term health issues associated with a 12 week conservative course of oxandrolone are insignificant relative to those previously stated. If one of the goals is to curb steroid use in figure, this isn't the way to do it. If public appeal is what they are looking for, whatever, but the path to that look isn't much different from a health perspective than french runway models. They just starve themselves, we add cardio.

This whole thing needs to be reset to where it should be. Bikini should be a fit look, figure (BB lite), fitness = BB lite + performance, and BB is BB, and keep it consistent.

W6

[CydneyWalker_etheric]

It takes only what it takes. They are many ways to skin a cat. The shapers are big on cardio as a way to burn muscle. It is being used to take a physique out of its natural realm, ie, purposely tearing it down to fit these new judging criteria. While it may work in the short run, in the end one ends up with a body devoid of muscle, overtrained, ready to add fat faster than lightening through a phone line, and a world of long-term psychological, eating disorder/metabolic hurt.

The long term health issues associated with a 12 week conservative course of oxandrolone are insignificant relative to those previously stated. If one of the goals is to curb steroid use in figure, this isn't the way to do it. If public appeal is what they are looking for, whatever, but the path to that look isn't much different from a health perspective than french runway models. They just starve themselves, we add cardio.

This whole thing needs to be reset to where it should be. Bikini should be a fit look, figure (BB lite), fitness = BB lite + performance, and BB is BB, and keep it consistent.

W6

SAY IT AGAIN BROTHER!

[Musclepapa John]

It takes only what it takes. They are many ways to skin a cat. The shapers are big on cardio as a way to burn muscle. It is being used to take a physique out of its natural realm, ie, purposely tearing it down to fit these new judging criteria. While it may work in the short run, in the end one ends up with a body devoid of muscle, overtrained, ready to add fat faster than lightening through a phone line, and a world of long-term psychological, eating disorder/metabolic hurt.

The long term health issues associated with a 12 week conservative course of oxandrolone are insignificant relative to those previously stated. If one of the goals is to curb steroid use in figure, this isn't the way to do it. If public appeal is what they are looking for, whatever, but the path to that look isn't much different from a health perspective than french runway models. They just starve themselves, we add cardio.

This whole thing needs to be reset to where it should be. Bikini should be a fit look, figure (BB lite), fitness = BB lite + performance, and BB is BB, and keep it consistent.

W6

Salient points. How do you get that done?:popcorn::respect:

[KP DIVA]

This is somewhat off topic, but personally, I find it disturbing that both the winners of the Fitness and Figure international stated that they did 3+ hours of cardio/day. (Jen H was quoted on the cardio after winning the O..so I'm assuming she did the same for the Arnold)

If THAT is what it takes to rise to the top of this 'sport', then I'm out. I have a job, a husband, and a life. I don't have the time or the inclination do to that in preparation for a show....nor the desire to deal with the rebound afterward.

Sorry to digress.

I've done 3 hrs. of cardio and my 1 quad makes 2 of Zeville's. I personally think they just want a slim overall look w/ a little definition in shoulders.

[KP DIVA]

Salient points. How do you get that done?:popcorn::respect:

Good question!

[wilson6]

As long as there are those that continue to do whatever it takes to achieve the desired look, regardless of what that look is, and pay whatever associated cost (physical, mental and financial), things will never change.

I wonder what would happen if everyone came into a figure show as BB lite?

Cancel the show?

W6

[CydneyWalker_etheric]

As long as there are those that continue to do whatever it takes to achieve the desired look, regardless of what that look is, and pay whatever associated cost (physical, mental and financial), things will never change.

I wonder what would happen if everyone came into a figure show as BB lite?

Cancel the show?

W6

as a group we are not strong enough to unite in that manner. this would never happen as someone is going to defect and ruin the stand that everyone is trying to make. unfortunately, it is going to happen on an individiual basis, either you stop competing, go to another federation or continue the hamster wheel game.

[JISFIT]

This whole thing needs to be reset to where it should be. Bikini should be a fit look, figure (BB lite), fitness = BB lite + performance, and BB is BB, and keep it consistent.

W6

What a great description! Thank you for defining each category too bad that isn't the official description!

[Gert]

Maybe the NPC should listen to their athlete's more and ask them what they want.

[Suzanne]

As a judge Sandi, surely you know what you are looking for and if it takes three hours a day for 12-16 wks prior to be competitive and win the O or Arnold I bet you would do it:respect:

No she wouldn't because it is STUPID and unnecessarily to do 3 hours of cardio! and the only ones that HAVE to do have had their bodies already f-ed up from previous training

Most bodybuilders don't even do 3 hours of cardio

[Suzanne]

Maybe the NPC should listen to their athlete's more and ask them what they want.

The athletes tend to complain on boards when something first happens like when figure went soft but instead of standing their ground writing letters, coming in hard and maybe sacrificing a win that year for the betterment of the sport they just cave in a follow along

[heathergracefitness]

IMO, it was a bit much. Yes, Mats is correct they didn't go super hard last year, however, the winners did look a little more conditioned. It's really hard to give examples w/o calling some of the competitors out. I will say I would have given the entire show to Heather Grace. Heather and 3-5th place in Class A were probably the only competitors who were actually rewarded for overall conditioning.

Wow!!! Thank you so much! ... I trained hard for this show and really wanted to come in conditioned - inspite of the current trend. I believe that we can soften our look through presentation but have absolutely no desire to ever step on stage "soft." I am going to contact the judges for feedback this week and intend to bring a more refined overall presentation to Jr. Nationals.

[heathergracefitness]

I also thought that the placings were confusing in the AM. It looked like the harder athletes were usually penalized. I was trying to see if they were looking more at symmetry and shape, because the conditioning seemed to be very different in different girls (ex: F Class). But, the symmetry and shape of the girls in top placings was also very different, so I am still confused.
I am thinking that some of the bikini girls could have placed well in the figure portion, based on some of the figure placings (EX: overall and 2nd place winner in Bikini Short). Getting harder to know how to come in for figure these days... would be nice to know.
In IFBB, I thought that Monica and Gina looked FAB! In the AM, Shonda and Heather Grace had the best shape. Heather's conditioning was PERFECT!

Thank you, KristenAnn!!!

[CydneyWalker_etheric]

Heather,

I thought you looked amazing and what "we" as fans and competitors like and strive for. Your suit looked great on you. Your stage presence, even in the pictures looked spot on. Regardless of your placing, you had first in my eyes and heart.

Cydney

[TameMe]

I had the pleasure of talking with Heather back stage and she looked AWESOME!! I didn't get a chance to watch figure so I can't coment one way or the other but I thought Heather looked wonderful (and was super nice also :-)

[MsGuns]

Wow!!! Thank you so much! ... I trained hard for this show and really wanted to come in conditioned - inspite of the current trend. I believe that we can soften our look through presentation but have absolutely no desire to ever step on stage "soft." I am going to contact the judges for feedback this week and intend to bring a more refined overall presentation to Jr. Nationals.

Great job Heather...
I didnt get a chance to see ya on stage or at the EJM booth but Ive always admired you physique.

So how many hrs of cardio did you do per day?
What was the feedback from the judges?

[KP DIVA]

Wow!!! Thank you so much! ... I trained hard for this show and really wanted to come in conditioned - inspite of the current trend. I believe that we can soften our look through presentation but have absolutely no desire to ever step on stage "soft." I am going to contact the judges for feedback this week and intend to bring a more refined overall presentation to Jr. Nationals.

Just stating FACTS!! You looked great and more props to you for staying true to what you think looks best for your physique!!! Send your pics to Sandi Williamson. I sent her my pics the Monday after Jr. U and she got back to me w/in 24hrs.

[d2fit]

Wow!!! Thank you so much! ... I trained hard for this show and really wanted to come in conditioned - inspite of the current trend. I believe that we can soften our look through presentation but have absolutely no desire to ever step on stage "soft." I am going to contact the judges for feedback this week and intend to bring a more refined overall presentation to Jr. Nationals.

Heather you looked Fabulous on stage! Right from the get go on Thursday evening my wife & I thought you were in the running for winning your class & the overall. You have a very mature physique that would do quite well in the Pro ranks. IMO you hit the nail on the head with your conditioning, suits, Hair, make up & stage precense.

I know the judging is frustrating. IMO keep doing what you are doing for your next show. I think the judging will go more towards your look.

I think they were trying to make a point at this show.

[Laura Bailey]

Actually, to be honest, this softer - non-muscle - trend was already last year. But in my opinion, it really went to even more skinny look this year and it is confusing how +12kg girls places better than good conditioned girls who have a bit more muscles (i am NOT talking here about giants.) Feels like all judging is - muscles and good condition --- down in placements and in last call out. And things like symmetry,harmony,proportions,balance, muscle development,condition etc are not even compared.

But looking at video clips and photos, I am really sad that figure took steps to even more skinny and softer look. Is this sport any more?

I agree completely. The judges seemed to go for a softer and smaller look. No delts, quats, lats, no size, nothing. I think it was very inconsistent b/w the classes, amd like another member said, it had to have been discouraging for many of the international competitors who came in harder and paid a "small fortune" to compete. On the flip side, judging at the arnold seems to be a bit different from the national level NPC shows, although they are within the same organization.

[Damian Segovia]

I think people try and make to many excuses and always try and blame the judges intead of blaming themselves.We all know figure wants a softer look but you have to also bring a look that suit your structure the best. Some woman look better a tad harder physique while others look better with a softer look. Show up with the way you think you look the best while still trying to meet the so called figure guidelines. Don't come in to soft or to hard so that way you are in the mix one way or another. Be conditioned with tight glutes,hams and have a flat stomach but don't deplete water so much or use a diruretic. Try to create softness while mainting a tight physique. Look at the top six pro figure competitors at the Arnold. Some had a softer look while others were harder but none of them were out of shape with a jiggly butt. They were all well conditioned but still had a nice balance of softness and hardness. I used to think the same way about judging when my competitiors wouldn't win there class until I really started to study shows and relized that in most first call outs there were many different physiques on stage. Some where a little harder/more muscular while others were softer with less muscle but they all brought a nice overall look to the stage. I know I'm no expert since there really isn't such a thing when it comes to judging figure but I thought I would give my 2 cents anyways...........Sorry for the typos and spelling errors I typed this while in a rush :)

[Gert]

We all know figure wants a softer look....in the states maybe but the rest of the world you'll see a harder look. And that's strange because they all use the same (IFBB) rules but aply them differently.

[Kolbe]

I'm a bit desturbed about this. I don't like that smaller softer girls place higher.
And how should you prepare yourself? I mean - I'm 4 weeks out Sunday and I'm debating with myself if I should slow my cutting to not get as lean as I otherwise would get..
I have absolutely NO idea what the judges want and it would be so irritating to fight to get lean and then place lower than a soft girl!

[Siouxcountry]

I'm a bit desturbed about this. I don't like that smaller softer girls place higher.
And how should you prepare yourself? I mean - I'm 4 weeks out Sunday and I'm debating with myself if I should slow my cutting to not get as lean as I otherwise would get..
I have absolutely NO idea what the judges want and it would be so irritating to fight to get lean and then place lower than a soft girl!

You are competing in Europe. They continue to award a harder physique in Europe.

[Ali]

I am just a measly little competitor...but I wouldn't make any changes based on the results of this show.

And...they were sending a strong message to the international competitors that had an obvious difference in muscularity and conditioning. Very strong. They placed them not low...but last.

[GKeplinger]

Wow!!! Thank you so much! ... I trained hard for this show and really wanted to come in conditioned - inspite of the current trend. I believe that we can soften our look through presentation but have absolutely no desire to ever step on stage "soft." I am going to contact the judges for feedback this week and intend to bring a more refined overall presentation to Jr. Nationals.

I will be interested in hearing what type of feedback you get. I'm very new to this sport, however i'm already confused!

[Kolbe]

You are competing in Europe. They continue to award a harder physique in Europe.

Yeah I've been writting with AnneP about it too.
I'll get in my best shape ever! I'll keep cutting :D and keep my plan and show my best at the comp ;)

[Ali]

I will be interested in hearing what type of feedback you get. I'm very new to this sport, however i'm already confused!

You had one of the best physiques at the show...just keep going! :)

[heathergracefitness]

Heather,

I thought you looked amazing and what "we" as fans and competitors like and strive for. Your suit looked great on you. Your stage presence, even in the pictures looked spot on. Regardless of your placing, you had first in my eyes and heart.

Cydney

Thank you so much Cydney!

[heathergracefitness]

I had the pleasure of talking with Heather back stage and she looked AWESOME!! I didn't get a chance to watch figure so I can't coment one way or the other but I thought Heather looked wonderful (and was super nice also :-)

Thanks Tamee- It was a pleasure to finally meet you in person and I've told you how much admire your courage to venture into fitness! You looked amazing... I thought you showed tremendous poise and loved your confidence on stage,- and that suit... GOOD LAWD! - Did you guys peep Tamee's suit???? She is a VERY talented designer!

[heathergracefitness]

Great job Heather...
I didnt get a chance to see ya on stage or at the EJM booth but Ive always admired you physique.

So how many hrs of cardio did you do per day?
What was the feedback from the judges?

Thank you Drexel... I meant to stop by the booth but was honestly a little foggy on Friday (that day between prejudging and finals was a bit crazy on the system!!!) and consequently didn't really "do" the expo as planned. I will be better prepared next year for sure!

As far as cardio was concerned- I did an hour of fasted morning cardio and another 1/2 hr of HIIT after my wkouts for about 8 weeks then bumped the final session to an hour every other day for the last 3 weeks- nothing too crazy.

I will keep you posted about the feedback.

[heathergracefitness]

Heather you looked Fabulous on stage! Right from the get go on Thursday evening my wife & I thought you were in the running for winning your class & the overall. You have a very mature physique that would do quite well in the Pro ranks. IMO you hit the nail on the head with your conditioning, suits, Hair, make up & stage precense.

I know the judging is frustrating. IMO keep doing what you are doing for your next show. I think the judging will go more towards your look.

I think they were trying to make a point at this show.

Thank you for the encouragment! That is a HUGE compliment and really helps in validating the effort. I am planning to be as consistent (if not sharper- especially in the rear:ASB:) with my conditioning in all of the shows that I hit this year and refine my presentation for sure! I am praying that "my time" will come!

[heathergracefitness]

I will be interested in hearing what type of feedback you get. I'm very new to this sport, however i'm already confused!

Hey Gloria,

Join the club! (I'm joking of course- you looked great). To be honest, I'm new at this too. The Arnold Amateur was my third show and my first out of Colorado. I am very much looking forward to the critique and would love to improve in placement. I know that I need work on the stage and am hoping that my confidence improves with each outing (hopefully by leaps and bounds between now and June). I will keep you posted regarding the feedback.

[CydneyWalker_etheric]

Hey Gloria,

Join the club! (I'm joking of course- you looked great). To be honest, I'm new at this too. The Arnold Amateur was my third show and my first out of Colorado. I am very much looking forward to the critique and would love to improve in placement. I know that I need work on the stage and am hoping that my confidence improves with each outing (hopefully by leaps and bounds between now and June). I will keep you posted regarding the feedback.

YOUR THIRD SHOW! Amazing. No doubt your time is coming very soon. We need to get our autographs now....LOL! :respect:

[d2fit]

....in the states maybe but the rest of the world you'll see a harder look. And that's strange because they all use the same (IFBB) rules but aply them differently.

Magazines & supplement companies/ads determine the look. They pay the bills. The USA has the Pro circuit so they cater to that demographic.

[cslim]

No she wouldn't because it is STUPID and unnecessarily to do 3 hours of cardio! and the only ones that HAVE to do have had their bodies already f-ed up from previous training

Most bodybuilders don't even do 3 hours of cardio

I second that! I'm an hour MAX. Hell if i had to do that much, I'd be done with this sport as well because there aren't enough hours in the day and life has more things to offer than hours on a treadmill!

[Damian Segovia]

I second that! I'm an hour MAX. Hell if i had to do that much, I'd be done with this sport as well because there aren't enough hours in the day and life has more things to offer than hours on a treadmill!

Cslim don't make me comment.......D :)

[GKeplinger]

You had one of the best physiques at the show...just keep going! :)

Wow! What a compliment=) Thanks so much.

[GKeplinger]

Hey Gloria,

Join the club! (I'm joking of course- you looked great). To be honest, I'm new at this too. The Arnold Amateur was my third show and my first out of Colorado. I am very much looking forward to the critique and would love to improve in placement. I know that I need work on the stage and am hoping that my confidence improves with each outing (hopefully by leaps and bounds between now and June). I will keep you posted regarding the feedback.

Wow! Your 3rd show? You have alot to look forward to this year! You looked wonderful, i just hope the judging will be different at the National level shows=)

[DanielleA]

I second that! I'm an hour MAX. Hell if i had to do that much, I'd be done with this sport as well because there aren't enough hours in the day and life has more things to offer than hours on a treadmill!

:awesome: Amen sister!!