new direction for figure? :(

[bree marsh]

will figure become softer again? listen to fitness and figure talk radio on bodysport.com.....so confusing!

http://www.bodysport.com/radio/shows/eight/player.html

[MsGuns]

I thought figure was suppose to be softer than bodybuilding...

Some ladies look like they can compete in as lightweight BB...

Seems like this was asked of figure gurls b4...

[KP DIVA]

I thought figure was suppose to be softer than bodybuilding...

Some ladies look like they can compete in as lightweight BB...

Seems like this was asked of figure gurls b4...

True...and he's saying no bb but athletic feminine look in this interview. He did make a good point....why are the gurls pumping up backstage..this is figure. I was nervous about that w/ my last show b/c my trainer told me not to pump up at all. I've heard this several times...but his point is that they are only judging what is on stage and if all the physiques lack conditioning then of course the harder competitor will get the win.

[SBT]

Yeah this is a good debate, just because it seems like they say one thing, but then vote another.. I mean here in MI at the show I did last year, there were several figure chicks that were more vascular then the BB'ers now that doesn't make much sense to me at all...

[DaveFollansbee]

will figure become softer again? listen to fitness and figure talk radio on bodysport.com.....so confusing!

http://www.bodysport.com/radio/shows/eight/player.html

I didnt listen to the program but if its referring to national level, I dont think youll see much different from last year, but I can only speak for me... :)

[MsGuns]

local, national and IFBB

JM didnt like the look of the Figure gurls at the Arnold...

I always wondered y figure gurls pumped up...lol

They want athletic HOT lookin gurls...

They mentioned Michelle Flake didnt workout for a yr and didnt diet for a yr and WON 2 shows back to back.

[IslandGirl]

local, national and IFBB

JM didnt like the look of the Figure gurls at the Arnold...

I always wondered y figure gurls pumped up...lol

They want athletic HOT lookin gurls...

They mentioned Michelle Flake didnt workout for a yr and didnt diet for a yr and WON 2 shows back to back.

Drexel, I was advised by my husband/trainer not to pump up back stage at the USA's. I just sat and watched all the other girls pump up.

[IslandGirl]

We just talked to a friend of ours this past weekend who is an IFBB Figure Pro. She said she just got a letter saying that all Figure girls need to tone down their figures. They want smaller shoulders and no deep separtion in the quads. This is Figure, Not BB'ing.

[KP DIVA]

Drexel, I was advised by my husband/trainer not to pump up back stage at the USA's. I just sat and watched all the other girls pump up.


Did you feel akward not pumping up. I didn't pump up either....and I felt like every1 was look'n at me wondering why I wasn't...

[IslandGirl]

Did you feel akward not pumping up. I didn't pump up either....and I felt like every1 was look'n at me wondering why I wasn't...

I felt more awkward because I felt like I WANTED to pump up. I didn't really see anyone looking at me wondering how come I wasn't pumping up. But the funny thing, (and not to poke fun), because some of those girls hardly had any muscle....I was kind of chuckling to myself thinking....dang, they are pumping up and nothing is happening.

[cray17]

I don't get what they want. I don't get why they don't just come on out and say that they want Hawaiian Tropic/Hooters bikini bodies for figure and get it over it.

This is why I made this comment on the figure posedown thread:

Then what ARE they aiming for? From what has been said by others around many forums, it seems like they want to be a small step above Hawaiian Tropic bikini model. Well...with figure athletes like Gina, Jenn, Christine P-P, Lindsay, Alli, Orenda, and Juliana (among many others) and with the success of V-Dub aka Siren of American Gladiators, then I've got just two words for ya: GOOD...LUCK

This is why I came up with this particular thread about a crossover:

http://www.siouxcountry.com/showthread.php?t=81

All the fans and competitors want is a clear direction, yet it doesn't seemed like we have a clear one. Fitness has one: have a graceful physique and a cool routine. Bodybuilding: have a graceful physique and demonstrate it through a posing routine, and (if you make it high enough) a posedown. What does IFBB/NBC figure have? :confused:

Am I making any sense...or am I gonna get flamed for having this thought? :(

[KP DIVA]

I felt more awkward because I felt like I WANTED to pump up. I didn't really see anyone looking at me wondering how come I wasn't pumping up. But the funny thing, (and not to poke fun), because some of those girls hardly had any muscle....I was kind of chuckling to myself thinking....dang, they are pumping up and nothing is happening.

LOL! ...it was really noticeable at my show...b/c you couldn't go to the pump area until ur class was next in line. So...Class A was in line get'n ready to go on stage, my class was in the pump area, and Class C was behind us...so it was obvious that i was the only one not pumping up! I just think I was tripping b/c it was my 1st show.

[IslandGirl]

LOL! ...it was really noticeable at my show...b/c you couldn't go to the pump area until ur class was next in line. So...Class A was in line get'n ready to go on stage, my class was in the pump area, and Class C was behind us...so it was obvious that i was the only one not pumping up! I just think I was tripping b/c it was my 1st show.

LOL!!!

What show did you do? Do you have pics? Post them!

[KP DIVA]

I don't get what they want. I don't get why they don't just come on out and say that they want Hawaiian Tropic/Hooters bikini bodies for figure and get it over it.

This is why I made this comment on the figure posedown thread:



This is why I came up with this particular thread about a crossover:

http://www.siouxcountry.com/showthread.php?t=81

All the fans and competitors want is a clear direction, yet it doesn't seemed like we have a clear one. Fitness has one: have a graceful physique and a cool routine. Bodybuilding: have a graceful physique and demonstrate it through a posing routine, and (if you make it high enough) a posedown. What does IFBB/NBC figure have? :confused:

Am I making any sense...or am I gonna get flamed for having this thought? :(

I think it's clear that they don't want Hawaiian Tropic nor FBB in figure...IMO, other gurls have looked at what was rewarded in the past and tried to match it...but I still believe it depends on that individual person's physique...but I think everyone would agree that Hawaiian Tropic is not what they want! Althought Gina Aliotti was harder it looks good on her physique...Jen Gates was no where near as hard..but she looked great as well. Juliana M..same thing- looks great w/ a lot of muscle and she doesn't remind me of FBB at all...but when you look at Latisha Wilder (w/ the exception of this year's Arnold) she has always looked like a fbb...so i just think it depends on that persons and what looks best for their physique.

[MsGuns]

I was just wondering...

What does IFBB/NBC figure have? :confused:

Am I making any sense...or am I gonna get flamed for having this thought? :(

[KP DIVA]

LOL!!!

What show did you do? Do you have pics? Post them!

Oh Lawd...you would ask me to post...ok, let me do a link to photobucket....my pics are wayyy to large and it won't let me post them. give me a second.

[IslandGirl]

Oh Lawd...you would ask me to post...ok, let me do a link to photobucket....my pics are wayyy to large and it won't let me post them. give me a second.

ok :)

[MsGuns]

I think you not pumping up is goin in the right direction...

Yall heard from one of the top dawgs...

So stay w/ it!!!

[IslandGirl]

I think you not pumping up is goin in the right direction...

Yall heard from one of the top dawgs...

So stay w/ it!!!

:awesome:

[MsGuns]

Why is it confusing?

will figure become softer again? listen to fitness and figure talk radio on bodysport.com.....so confusing!

http://www.bodysport.com/radio/shows/eight/player.html

[KP DIVA]

OK, here are some pics from my 1st Figure show 11/3/07. I added a few w/ my class..not everyone b/c there were 15 gurls. But the pic w/ me and the young lady in the red suit...those were when we were being compared solo. She got 1st, I got 2nd. My presentation was a little off and maybe that's what gave her the edge...what do you all think?

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj203/Essdiva/100_0155.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj203/Essdiva/100_0154.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj203/Essdiva/100_0096.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj203/Essdiva/100_0094.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj203/Essdiva/100_0093.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj203/Essdiva/100_0092.jpg

[KP DIVA]

I hate that my fingers were flexed, lol!! I was so tense...I think I did that b/c my trainer kept tell'n me to stop hunching up my shoulders, so I just flexed my hands instead!! Since then, I've been practicing on keeping my hands relaxed.

[ibarramedia]

Solid Calves on contestant #14. What's her name?

[IslandGirl]

Yes, I can see about presentation/posing. But, you were also harder than she was. That was probably the deciding factor. You looked amazing tho'!!!

[KP DIVA]

Yes, I can see about presentation/posing. But, you were also harder than she was. That was probably the deciding factor. You looked amazing tho'!!!

Thanks! When I spoke to the judges they told me that her presentation was a little sharper....couldn't tell me anything else that i need to improve on compared to the #1 winner. Don't know what #14's name is...but I was surprised that she did not make Top 5.

[Siouxcountry]

From Bodysport.com:

LINK (http://bodysport.com/archives/2008/03_mar/softenup.html)

Soften Up...Now!

IFBB Chairman Mr. Jim Manion delivered a very clear and concise directive this week to all IFBB Professional Figure athletes just days after the 2008 Arnold Classic Ms. Figure International. The message…you are too big and hard.

Mincing no words Manion spelled it out in clear English, "After the first figure event for 2008 the Figure International, the IFBB Professional League wants to see less muscularity and hardness in the figure competitors. The Deltoids are too big and cut and the thigh cuts are too deep. The next IFBB professional figure event is the 2008 Pittsburgh Pro Figure to be held on May 3/2008 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Beginning with this event the judges will be marking down competitors with excessive hardness and muscular separation."

In a brief interview IFBB Men's judging representative and veteran IFBB Head Judge Jim Rockell stated simply "I applaud him (Jim Manion) for acting swiftly and sending out the letter." Rockell is a guest on Fitness and Figure Talk Radio this week and openly discusses judging criteria for figure.

[KP DIVA]

From Bodysport.com:

LINK (http://bodysport.com/archives/2008/03_mar/softenup.html)


Anxious to see the winners at the next show and if it reflects the request in this letter.

[MsGuns]

Does that trickle down to local n national?

From Bodysport.com:

LINK (http://bodysport.com/archives/2008/03_mar/softenup.html)

[KP DIVA]

Does that trickle down to local n national?

Good question. But I will say this years Figure gurls aren't overly hard (Jen Gates, Teresa Anthony, Paola Americo) and a few others i've seen..they are more so feminine w/ an athletic look. So maybe so.

[MsGuns]

You looked pretty tense upper body where as she looked really relaxed and
physique wise you were a lil harder than her but maybe because you were tense...

Maybe figure gurls shouldnt workout the last week...diet all the way up to the day b4...carb up and see what happens...

Or dont do anything the last week...no workout and not strict diet...

What do yall think will help bring them in softer?

I hate that my fingers were flexed, lol!! I was so tense...I think I did that b/c my trainer kept tell'n me to stop hunching up my shoulders, so I just flexed my hands instead!! Since then, I've been practicing on keeping my hands relaxed.

[KP DIVA]

You looked pretty tense upper body where as she looked really relaxed and
physique wise you were a lil harder than her but maybe because you were tense...

Maybe figure gurls shouldnt workout the last week...diet all the way up to the day b4...carb up and see what happens...

Or dont do anything the last week...no workout and not strict diet...

What do yall think will help bring them in softer?

I have no idea what would help...I just think for some ppl who tend to carry more BF, they have to come in harder to look conditioned. The carbing up has never worked for me...I just spill over. I think figure needs to train for figure like the guy in the interview said vs. training like a BB..I did bb in 99-2000 and the training i did for this last show was completely different.

[MsGuns]

to see if that command trickled down to yall (local and national level)

I have no idea what would help...I just think for some ppl who tend to carry more BF, they have to come in harder to look conditioned. The carbing up has never worked for me...I just spill over. I think figure needs to train for figure like the guy in the interview said vs. training like a BB..I did bb in 99-2000 and the training i did for this last show was completely different.

[IslandGirl]

Yes, I can see about presentation/posing. But, you were also harder than she was. That was probably the deciding factor. You looked amazing tho'!!!

Thanks! When I spoke to the judges they told me that her presentation was a little sharper....couldn't tell me anything else that i need to improve on compared to the #1 winner. Don't know what #14's name is...but I was surprised that she did not make Top 5.

You were harder. Look at your hamstrings compared to hers. You also had lines in your quads...alot more than hers were.

[IslandGirl]

Does that trickle down to local n national?

It already has for the local and national level.

[SBT]

I hate that my fingers were flexed, lol!! I was so tense...I think I did that b/c my trainer kept tell'n me to stop hunching up my shoulders, so I just flexed my hands instead!! Since then, I've been practicing on keeping my hands relaxed.

I have issues with my hands wanting to tense up and point as well... actually posing is my overall weakness either way. I think it could have gone either way with you two!!

[SBT]

You were harder. Look at your hamstrings compared to hers. You also had lines in your quads...alot more than hers were.

But her lower quads popped out a little more where as NC had MUCH wider and better lats IMO!!! :)

[IslandGirl]

But her lower quads popped out a little more where as NC had MUCH wider and better lats IMO!!! :)

Well...somewhat. But also, look at her leg/knee positioning. She is standing somewhat like a bb'er. The way Kenyatta is standing is perfect.

[SBT]

Well...somewhat. But also, look at her leg/knee positioning. She is standing somewhat like a bb'er. The way Kenyatta is standing is perfect.

I do agree with that too, actually I noted that a few of the figure girls here were posed that way too... thus making their quads appear bigger also.

[SBT]

IMO Kenyetta has the better package... wider lats, more capped delts, and hammies!

[IslandGirl]

I do agree with that too, actually I noted that a few of the figure girls here were posed that way too... thus making their quads appear bigger also.

Looks too much like a BB'er.

[IslandGirl]

IMO Kenyetta has the better package... wider lats, more capped delts, and hammies!

I agree! That is what I LIKE too!

[bree marsh]

wow, this thread took off! my biggest concern is that they are not judging according to what they say they want! it is just very confusing for us....but like gina says, you have to bring the package that works for you! after thinking about it a lot, i really don't think i need to worry because i will not come in too hard! my body just doesn't get super hard and vascular! it just sykes me out when i hear that some girls stop weight training and then win shows, when i am killin it in the gym trying to keep the muscle on! plus, there was that 20% rule about 3-4 years ago and now the figure girls are bigger than ever, so obviously the judging didn't follow the statements! we'll see what happens this time.....i do agree that figure girls are getting too big, but there also MUST be a clear line b/w figure girls and Bikini girls!

[KP DIVA]

You were harder. Look at your hamstrings compared to hers. You also had lines in your quads...alot more than hers were.

Yeah....that's what I was told by trainer and some other people...I think she got me on presentation....I had a good time, and I was smiling, but she was flowing better w/ her posing.

[KP DIVA]

I have issues with my hands wanting to tense up and point as well... actually posing is my overall weakness either way. I think it could have gone either way with you two!!


What's funny is that I didn't even realize I was doing it until I saw the pictures...I had no idea!!! My trainer was expediting (sp) the show backstage so he couldn't really see my hands...he could only see when my shoulders started rising up!!

[KP DIVA]

Well...somewhat. But also, look at her leg/knee positioning. She is standing somewhat like a bb'er. The way Kenyatta is standing is perfect.

Thanks IG and SBT for the feedback....I plan to keep everything the same except for my hands...and I've already gotten a lot better w/ my posing and just projecting a relaxed stance. I got a new 1 pc. which is cut in more on the sides so the judges will be able to see my symmetry a lot better. I sent the person who made my suit projected measurements but I lost more weight than I thought, so that suit was actually too big.

[KP DIVA]

wow, this thread took off! my biggest concern is that they are not judging according to what they say they want! it is just very confusing for us....but like gina says, you have to bring the package that works for you! after thinking about it a lot, i really don't think i need to worry because i will not come in too hard! my body just doesn't get super hard and vascular! it just sykes me out when i hear that some girls stop weight training and then win shows, when i am killin it in the gym trying to keep the muscle on! plus, there was that 20% rule about 3-4 years ago and now the figure girls are bigger than ever, so obviously the judging didn't follow the statements! we'll see what happens this time.....i do agree that figure girls are getting too big, but there also MUST be a clear line b/w figure girls and Bikini girls!

I'm really anxious to see as well..What I noticed is that the judge did say if everyone who shows up isn't as well conditioned and still carry BF the more muscular/conditioned girl will win.. so either way, it's still a toss up.

[KP DIVA]

Looks too much like a BB'er.

I believe that she was doing that to bring a little more shape to her quads also...

[fitmomma3]

I didn't listen to the whole thing... BUT key points I found interesting in the beginning where...

*Starts with a pretty face, symmetry, and conditioning tops it off
*Athletic with lines
*Stop saying hard or soft but instead who looks best
*You can only judge whats in front of you

Like I said in Linda Fodor's congratulations thread... perfect ex of figure... muscular but not too big, proportionate, gorgeous face, great presence, conditioned but not ripped, symmetrical, top to bottom, front to back size, shape, and conditioning. Great suits, great hair... :respect::respect:

[AnneP]

And again.. I think that .. to be softer does not mean to be soft. And one thing what the girls should remember: after this figure judging is still total pacage- judgning. And hardness/conditioning is just one factor. A bit harder can beat you , if her total package is better then yours. I say this because one girl complained about this yesterday. She had competed here in 2006, and was told that she is too hard and big for figure (in Europe called body fitness..). So she came in 2007 with softer look and had taken size down, did not placed as well as in 2006. So she complained that "hey, they dont jugde like they said." WTF. Again, ur placeing depends on how good you are compared the others...To be harder or softer is just one little factor. And the most of the girls wont ever place well, even if they would do all the things the judges say. Why? Simply again, some things you cannot just change in ur physique and there can be always better ones...

All this is so obvious, but something which the girls forget easilly when talking about judging criteria.

EDIT: Like fitmomma said, the key thing is .. who looks best...

[fitmomma3]

And again.. I think that .. to be softer does not mean to be soft. And one thing what the girls should remember: after this figure judging is still total pacage- judgning. And hardness/conditioning is just one factor. A bit harder can beat you , if her total package is better then yours. I say this because one girl complained about this yesterday. She had competed here in 2006, and was told that she is too hard and big for figure (in Europe called body fitness..). So she came in 2007 with softer look and had taken size down, did not placed as well as in 2006. So she complained that "hey, they dont jugde like they said." WTF. Again, ur placeing depends on how good you are compared the others...To be harder or softer is just one little factor. And the most of the girls wont ever place well, even if they would do all the things the judges say. Why? Simply again, some things you cannot just change in ur physique and there can be always better ones...

All this is so obvious, but something which the girls forget easilly when talking about judging criteria.

EDIT: Like fitmomma said, the key thing is .. who looks best...
So true it happen to me this year and I started a whole thread on it... not complaining but trying to understand and now I fully do... its all about YOUR BODY and who you are compared to. I can appreciate and respect that now and KNOW it IS part of the competition.

IN Spring I was lean and conditioned and looked too stringy and small on stage in comparison to the fuller/softer girls, was told to come in heavier... came in heavier and then competed against leaner girls and next to them it made me look out of shape... at first I was frustrated because I followed judges feedback BUT now I realize its not them, its ME... BRING YOUR BEST PACKAGE period... and know that you cannot dictate what other girls bring... its often hard for us to admit that other girls just have a better package then we do especially in figure because it may mean admitting they're prettier than us, have nicer skin or nicer hair than us... It sounds so harsh but it IS part of judging criteria.

Bottom line is I think they say "softer" because if you cannot point out distinct differences between a figure physique and a lightweight BB then its too much.

MUST ADD... Confidence, poise, presence, and charisma are often things that cannot be taught... when you see someone who walks out on stage with that you can't help but be DRAWN to them! perfect ex. those in New England will know what I'm talking about... Jazzy... does she have the most muscle? best conditioning? no... but she sweeps the overalls because her shape, symmetry and package... when she walks out on stage the room literally gets quiet to watch her... that is JUST "IT"! It almost cannot be explained.

[Mats E.]

And again.. I think that .. to be softer does not mean to be soft. And one thing what the girls should remember: after this figure judging is still total pacage- judgning. And hardness/conditioning is just one factor. A bit harder can beat you , if her total package is better then yours. I say this because one girl complained about this yesterday. She had competed here in 2006, and was told that she is too hard and big for figure (in Europe called body fitness..). So she came in 2007 with softer look and had taken size down, did not placed as well as in 2006. So she complained that "hey, they dont jugde like they said." WTF. Again, ur placeing depends on how good you are compared the others...To be harder or softer is just one little factor. And the most of the girls wont ever place well, even if they would do all the things the judges say. Why? Simply again, some things you cannot just change in ur physique and there can be always better ones...

All this is so obvious, but something which the girls forget easilly when talking about judging criteria.

EDIT: Like fitmomma said, the key thing is .. who looks best...


Spot on Anne.. you know your Figure... :respect:

[Alli]

Okay. I mean NO offense to this thread...but it has been posted in 20 ways on a million forum boards and the end result is still the same- judging criteria for figure is inconsistent. Period. The bottom line is even if the judging WAS consistent, the NPC/IFBB is riddled with political favoritism and a pleothora of other issues. No matter who says what when, and no matter how many times we try to figure out what judges are looking for- its going to vary. And even if it didn't- politics would come into play. Its kind of like beating a dead horse. :) We can think they want a softer look, then as soon as we think that, they'll reward a hard physique and send us into confusion again. Time and time I've said the BEST thing to do is bring YOUR best package to the stage. Find the right amount of hard/soft and the right amount of muscle for YOUR physique and bring yourself to stage confident, poised, and strong. Do what works for you- :D

[IslandGirl]

Okay. I mean NO offense to this thread...but it has been posted in 20 ways on a million forum boards and the end result is still the same- judging criteria for figure is inconsistent. Period. The bottom line is even if the judging WAS consistent, the NPC/IFBB is riddled with political favoritism and a pleothora of other issues. No matter who says what when, and no matter how many times we try to figure out what judges are looking for- its going to vary. And even if it didn't- politics would come into play. Its kind of like beating a dead horse. :) We can think they want a softer look, then as soon as we think that, they'll reward a hard physique and send us into confusion again. Time and time I've said the BEST thing to do is bring YOUR best package to the stage. Find the right amount of hard/soft and the right amount of muscle for YOUR physique and bring yourself to stage confident, poised, and strong. Do what works for you- :D

You are so right Alli. It is like beating a dead horse. lol!

It all depends who shows up and who you stand next to. Because the judges are comparing you with so and so on that particular day/night.

So...like Alii mentioned and I've mentioned on numerous boards as well.....bring in a package that you like best and you will never regret it. If you come in softer at your next show, because the judges at your last show told you that you were too hard....and then at your next show you are compared with someone who was just a tad bit tighter than you....the judges are going to tell you....compared to that other girl, you need to come is just a slight bit tighter.

SO.....come in how you like to see your figure at.


I have to disagree with politics tho'. In general, if this sport was based on politics....then let's just say...um....(I'm picking on a guy here) Peter Putnam would be Pro already. He is all over the magazines, sponsored by Metrx (last I remember) , but nope, he did not win any of the 2 pro cards in Vegas neither did he win his Pro card at the Nationals.

[STL Joe]

:D I love Alli. :D:awesome:

[IslandGirl]

:D I love Alli. :D:awesome:

HEY! What am I, chopped liver???:p

[Terry Goodlad]

As expected this is a hotly debated subject, just as it has been since the advent of figure and the advent of fitness before that.

I know Jim Rockell very well both professionally and personally and I could drivel on forever with all sorts of wisdom and experience and the end result would not probably change. I think its more important that competitors understand what they should expect so they know why they may not get the result they are hoping for so they either change the right things or change nothing at all.

NPC/IFBB physique judging is subjective. I like dark haired exotic girls with mysterious eyes and a strong jawline. My buddy Mark likes blondes that look like colledge students. Another buddy Coy likes Asian girls and could care less about butts but likes larger breasts. We can all three describe the perfect woman in general terms and sound as if we are describing the same woman but when the three girls actually showed up they would be worlds apart.

I know many of the IFBB judges and we have all discussed our favorites and why. Its not a bad thing or unfair, its human nature to have a preference. Judges are trained to look for certain things though.

Athletes think its called hard and soft.

Judges only consider hard and soft when the competitor has too much of one or the other. Judges look for a proportionate body, balanced conditioning, muscular definition meaning being able to identify where one muscle group ends and another begins. For overall appearance they look for how a body flows...small joints contrasted against and gently flowing into sweeping muscle bellies. The differential between small and big...tiny waist, wide shoulders, wide quad sweep producing an hour glass shape. Not overly stark, like a bodybuilder but a gentle flow from small to big.

If we think in terms of hard and soft then we are missing the point.

Think of it as being conditioned and athletic, balanced and proportionate. To achieve that perfect balance for your body you may have to be 15% bodyfat or 5% depending on your particular body and how it looks best. Gina Aliotti made the point best in her interview on Fitness and Figure Talk Radio. She is most proportionate at the levels of bodyfat she was at the Arnold. Jim Rockell felt she carried too much muscle but her shape is exceptional, there was no one better on that stage in that regard as this picture shows.

So, do what you have to do to make your body look the best it can with respect to those categories, proportion, balance, conditioning to look athletic but not muscular and forget about hard and soft. Getting hard is easy, just grind and diet, shaping your body for balance and to flow is the magic that will make you place higher. Bigger is not better, better is better. If you can achieve this you may not win, but you will look the best you can look.

I hope that helps.

Take care
Terry
www.bodysport.com

[MsGuns]

Thx for posting...

As expected this is a hotly debated subject, just as it has been since the advent of figure and the advent of fitness before that.

I know Jim Rockell very well both professionally and personally and I could drivel on forever with all sorts of wisdom and experience and the end result would not probably change. I think its more important that competitors understand what they should expect so they know why they may not get the result they are hoping for so they either change the right things or change nothing at all.

NPC/IFBB physique judging is subjective. I like dark haired exotic girls with mysterious eyes and a strong jawline. My buddy Mark likes blondes that look like colledge students. Another buddy Coy likes Asian girls and could care less about butts but likes larger breasts. We can all three describe the perfect woman in general terms and sound as if we are describing the same woman but when the three girls actually showed up they would be worlds apart.

I know many of the IFBB judges and we have all discussed our favorites and why. Its not a bad thing or unfair, its human nature to have a preference. Judges are trained to look for certain things though.

Athletes think its called hard and soft.

Judges only consider hard and soft when the competitor has too much of one or the other. Judges look for a proportionate body, balanced conditioning, muscular definition meaning being able to identify where one muscle group ends and another begins. For overall appearance they look for how a body flows...small joints contrasted against and gently flowing into sweeping muscle bellies. The differential between small and big...tiny waist, wide shoulders, wide quad sweep producing an hour glass shape. Not overly stark, like a bodybuilder but a gentle flow from small to big.

If we think in terms of hard and soft then we are missing the point.

Think of it as being conditioned and athletic, balanced and proportionate. To achieve that perfect balance for your body you may have to be 15% bodyfat or 5% depending on your particular body and how it looks best. Gina Aliotti made the point best in her interview on Fitness and Figure Talk Radio. She is most proportionate at the levels of bodyfat she was at the Arnold. Jim Rockell felt she carried too much muscle but her shape is exceptional, there was no one better on that stage in that regard as this picture shows.

So, do what you have to do to make your body look the best it can with respect to those categories, proportion, balance, conditioning to look athletic but not muscular and forget about hard and soft. Getting hard is easy, just grind and diet, shaping your body for balance and to flow is the magic that will make you place higher. Bigger is not better, better is better. If you can achieve this you may not win, but you will look the best you can look.

I hope that helps.

Take care
Terry
www.bodysport.com

[Terry Goodlad]

I forgot to add this part, sorry.

We also have to realize that judges can only judge what is on stage. If the most proportionate and balanced competitor is a little harder and a girl that is softer, perhaps more in line with what we feel should be where we want our figure competitors to be does not have the level of balance and proportion then often times the nod will go to the harder girl leaving us to think they are looking for harder bodies.

They can only judge what is on stage and there is a lot more to it than just hard and soft. Like I said, that only comes into play when an athlete is too much of one or the other.

I cover almost all the IFBB shows and NPC National level shows for Oxygen Magazine so I see in the area of 25 to 30 shows a year and while I don't always agree with judging, most of it does make sense. Last year there was only one show that I felt was a screwed up mess. LIke I said, I don't always agree but even with calls I don't agree with the majority of the time I see the rationalle. Thats where preference comes in.

Since there is no measurable mark to hit like in tennis or football this will be a tough sport to succeed in. The women I know that have done well stopped competing with others and focussed on making their bodies the best they could be.

Michele Flake trained like a bodybuilder, thought like a bodybuilder, and prepared for a show like a bodybuilder and did nothing. She took a year off, lost a ton of unneccesary muscle, took 4.5 weeks to shape up and won two IFBB pro shows back to back. Its about shape, balance, proportion and a conditioned athletic looking physique. Its not about size and hard or soft.

Again, I hope that helps in some way and didn't add to the confusion.

Take care
Terry
www.bodysport.com

[Terry Goodlad]

HI Drexel
I would have gotten here yesterday but I was swamped with articles and last minute stuff. We just nailed down dates for our modeling workshop so I was in a panic getting last minute details worked out before we post it tomorrow.

Great community here, thanks for inviting me over.

Terry

[MsGuns]

and hearing a different POV...Thx again

HI Drexel
I would have gotten here yesterday but I was swamped with articles and last minute stuff. We just nailed down dates for our modeling workshop so I was in a panic getting last minute details worked out before we post it tomorrow.

Great community here, thanks for inviting me over.

Terry

[MsGuns]

Is this your 1st one?

You do awesome work...
Elaine is such a beautiful lady...
Both of yall keep up the great work...
Maybe one day Ill get to work w/ yall...

[Siouxcountry]

Great community here, thanks for inviting me over.

Terry

Great to have you here, Terry! And thanks for the above wisdom. :)

[KP DIVA]

As expected this is a hotly debated subject, just as it has been since the advent of figure and the advent of fitness before that.

I know Jim Rockell very well both professionally and personally and I could drivel on forever with all sorts of wisdom and experience and the end result would not probably change. I think its more important that competitors understand what they should expect so they know why they may not get the result they are hoping for so they either change the right things or change nothing at all.

NPC/IFBB physique judging is subjective. I like dark haired exotic girls with mysterious eyes and a strong jawline. My buddy Mark likes blondes that look like colledge students. Another buddy Coy likes Asian girls and could care less about butts but likes larger breasts. We can all three describe the perfect woman in general terms and sound as if we are describing the same woman but when the three girls actually showed up they would be worlds apart.

I know many of the IFBB judges and we have all discussed our favorites and why. Its not a bad thing or unfair, its human nature to have a preference. Judges are trained to look for certain things though.

Athletes think its called hard and soft.

Judges only consider hard and soft when the competitor has too much of one or the other. Judges look for a proportionate body, balanced conditioning, muscular definition meaning being able to identify where one muscle group ends and another begins. For overall appearance they look for how a body flows...small joints contrasted against and gently flowing into sweeping muscle bellies. The differential between small and big...tiny waist, wide shoulders, wide quad sweep producing an hour glass shape. Not overly stark, like a bodybuilder but a gentle flow from small to big.

If we think in terms of hard and soft then we are missing the point.

Think of it as being conditioned and athletic, balanced and proportionate. To achieve that perfect balance for your body you may have to be 15% bodyfat or 5% depending on your particular body and how it looks best. Gina Aliotti made the point best in her interview on Fitness and Figure Talk Radio. She is most proportionate at the levels of bodyfat she was at the Arnold. Jim Rockell felt she carried too much muscle but her shape is exceptional, there was no one better on that stage in that regard as this picture shows.

So, do what you have to do to make your body look the best it can with respect to those categories, proportion, balance, conditioning to look athletic but not muscular and forget about hard and soft. Getting hard is easy, just grind and diet, shaping your body for balance and to flow is the magic that will make you place higher. Bigger is not better, better is better. If you can achieve this you may not win, but you will look the best you can look.

I hope that helps.

Take care
Terry
www.bodysport.com

Thanks so much for your input. I think we need to archive this post and Alli's...so the next time this subject comes up we can reference these two post and keep it moving!!!

[bree marsh]

Okay. I mean NO offense to this thread...but it has been posted in 20 ways on a million forum boards and the end result is still the same- judging criteria for figure is inconsistent. Period. The bottom line is even if the judging WAS consistent, the NPC/IFBB is riddled with political favoritism and a pleothora of other issues. No matter who says what when, and no matter how many times we try to figure out what judges are looking for- its going to vary. And even if it didn't- politics would come into play. Its kind of like beating a dead horse. :) We can think they want a softer look, then as soon as we think that, they'll reward a hard physique and send us into confusion again. Time and time I've said the BEST thing to do is bring YOUR best package to the stage. Find the right amount of hard/soft and the right amount of muscle for YOUR physique and bring yourself to stage confident, poised, and strong. Do what works for you- :D

just thought it would be a good discussion and wanted to get other's view points. i totally get that judging is inconsistent and politics are involved. my feelings are not too strong on this topic, which is why i have only asked for judges feedback one time during my whole figure career! i am totally with ya and everyone else who says JUST BRING YOUR BEST! people ususally know what they need to work on!

[KMS]

I totally appreciate your remarks Terry and thanks for posting them.

I find so much truth in what you say for my own body. Being an older competitor then most....I HAVE to come in with more muscle and a bit harder. It's what fills my body out the best. (meaning skin, hiney legs etc) If I don't do this then I don't place as well with the judges and I am told to bring up those parts of my body to fill it out more. So basically my goal for any show is not necessarily placement in the top 5 but rather to take the best me out there that I can for my body type. I have seen enough of the competitions to realize that it's the TOTAL Package of the body rather then just the "HARD" or "SOFT" look. I hope that this year...maybe I come in a little harder and with more muscle but in the long run...a much better package then ever before.

[roeperson]

The more things change the more they stay the same. These girls should stay here dont get any bigger but dont start telling Gina, who in my opinion is the appitamy of what a figure woman should look like. I dont want to see these girls come into figure and win that look like they just walked off the beach. Know we dont need Bodybuilders on the Stage but we do need someone that looks like they have lifted a weight before.

I do think they are trying to get away from the steroid use .

[Terry Goodlad]

Is this your 1st one?

You do awesome work...
Elaine is such a beautiful lady...
Both of yall keep up the great work...
Maybe one day Ill get to work w/ yall...
It is our first formal one, we have done lots of seminars for others but you can never cover all you need to. This is a workshop rather than a seminar so there is lots of hands on and then on the last day it will be a live shoot and you get to keep the shots for your porfolio. So many models get their chance to shoot with someone good that can get them published and they start trying to learn how to model when the shoot starts. Those are exhausting days for both the model and photographer and the result is usually not as good as it could be.

Lots of girls want to shoot but very few are prepared when the opportunity arrises. Then there is the businss side of things...being an athlete does not make you a model any more than being a model makes you an athlete. Understanding business is essential but if you don't know it already you are at a disadvantage.

we just want to give people the tools so they stand a chance of reaching their full potential.

Thanks for the compliments on Elaine. She is an incredible woman.

[Terry Goodlad]

The more things change the more they stay the same. These girls should stay here dont get any bigger but dont start telling Gina, who in my opinion is the appitamy of what a figure woman should look like. I dont want to see these girls come into figure and win that look like they just walked off the beach. Know we dont need Bodybuilders on the Stage but we do need someone that looks like they have lifted a weight before.

I do think they are trying to get away from the steroid use .
you just hit the nail on the head...steroid use in figure should not be neccesary. Many girls here would be surprised I think at how many top pro's DO NOT use anabolics or growth and do very well...its just assumed they all do so many upcoming stars follow that path in hopes of turning pro.

There are also lots of pro's that do use drugs and you can tell on their faces and bodies. I know at least 6 top IFBB pro's that went clean and their competitive careers took off...yes, they did better without the drugs.

If you need to take steroids or growth to be competitive in figure then you are either really doing something wrong or you may be in the wrong sport. Drugs will not give you balance or proportion. They will help you get big and hard and the message is clear that is not what they want.

If you are interested in getting anywhere as a model then avoid drugs completely as they mess with your skin and face. On our Boards Dr. Ryan is willing to speak freely about how drugs affect your skin and face from a scientific perspective. Its real and it is irreversible.

Elaine is a 43 grandmother and is about to shoot for yet another Oxygen cover. She has won an IFBB show, makes her living in the sport, and doesn't even use fat burners. She has taken care of her body and skin her entire life and it shows.

I agree with you, Gina has perfect genetics for figure. If she was 5 lbs lighter she would still have that same shape, proportion, and balance just not look as thick and would still win.

[roeperson]

you just hit the nail on the head...steroid use in figure should not be neccesary. Many girls here would be surprised I think at how many top pro's DO NOT use anabolics or growth and do very well...its just assumed they all do so many upcoming stars follow that path in hopes of turning pro.

There are also lots of pro's that do use drugs and you can tell on their faces and bodies. I know at least 6 top IFBB pro's that went clean and their competitive careers took off...yes, they did better without the drugs.

If you need to take steroids or growth to be competitive in figure then you are either really doing something wrong or you may be in the wrong sport. Drugs will not give you balance or proportion. They will help you get big and hard and the message is clear that is not what they want.

If you are interested in getting anywhere as a model then avoid drugs completely as they mess with your skin and face. On our Boards Dr. Ryan is willing to speak freely about how drugs affect your skin and face from a scientific perspective. Its real and it is irreversible.

Elaine is a 43 grandmother and is about to shoot for yet another Oxygen cover. She has won an IFBB show, makes her living in the sport, and doesn't even use fat burners. She has taken care of her body and skin her entire life and it shows.

I agree with you, Gina has perfect genetics for figure. If she was 5 lbs lighter she would still have that same shape, proportion, and balance just not look as thick and would still win.

Terry your wife is awesome as are you man, I know that wherever there is a good woman there is a good man giving her support. I love what you guys have done with her career and yours and being such great business minded people hope to follow in your footsteps one day .
My wife and yourshttp://widget.slide.com/rdr/1/1/3/W/900000015f50eb2/1/85/5FcNG5Ol7z8G5gtvzOhHp6MaiVrFhWpI.jpg (http://www.slide.com/s/Fm3Jtohd2T_tRks6GNCIVQVm5WWVTI1Z?referrer=hlnk)

[Shelly]

you just hit the nail on the head...steroid use in figure should not be neccesary. Many girls here would be surprised I think at how many top pro's DO NOT use anabolics or growth and do very well...its just assumed they all do so many upcoming stars follow that path in hopes of turning pro.

There are also lots of pro's that do use drugs and you can tell on their faces and bodies. I know at least 6 top IFBB pro's that went clean and their competitive careers took off...yes, they did better without the drugs.

If you need to take steroids or growth to be competitive in figure then you are either really doing something wrong or you may be in the wrong sport. Drugs will not give you balance or proportion. They will help you get big and hard and the message is clear that is not what they want.

If you are interested in getting anywhere as a model then avoid drugs completely as they mess with your skin and face. On our Boards Dr. Ryan is willing to speak freely about how drugs affect your skin and face from a scientific perspective. Its real and it is irreversible.

Elaine is a 43 grandmother and is about to shoot for yet another Oxygen cover. She has won an IFBB show, makes her living in the sport, and doesn't even use fat burners. She has taken care of her body and skin her entire life and it shows.

I agree with you, Gina has perfect genetics for figure. If she was 5 lbs lighter she would still have that same shape, proportion, and balance just not look as thick and would still win.

excellent excellent POST!!!! people DO NOT believe pros arent on steroids... but i know a few who arent and they look FABULOUS!!! and those who THINK that is the way to go.... have done WORSE! so it does happen...

well Said Terry! And thank you for your input! Your wife is beautiful!:respect:

[NYCStrongFox]

Awesome points listed. I just listened to the interview. I competed in Jim's Rochester show in 2006 and was excited to have won the Masters class. In the 8 years I've been competing, it's really unfortunate to see how many women have never given themselves the chance to see what potential they have without the use of substances. Many, unfortunately, have done so becasue someone tells them to use them if they want to win. I've seen so many girls change within a year or two to a bigger, harder image and in most cases, not better. Their facial features change so much that their once pretty faces, turned hard, square, rough. Their femininity is slowly deteriorating (as well as their health, but they'll never now until later down the road). Obviously, it's a personal choice and you're accountable for your actions and the end results. I'd like to see more women not take that route and just train hard, smarter, diet smart, cardio and give themselves the opportunity to succeed with that drive and desire that can't come in a pill or liquid.
Best of luck to all the ladies getting ready to compete soon and those of you still in your off-season, enjoy that time cause it's almost pre-contest prep time! Good luck ladies and I look forward to meeting and seeing many of you in the circuit.
Terry and Elaine, thanks for creating your talk radio show and keeping us informed. Hope I get the opportunity to meet you soon and thank you in person for being a huge part of the sport.

[STL Joe]

HEY! What am I, chopped liver???:p

LOL - nah, she just said it with "sass". :D (either that, or it was the pink font color... LOL)

[Terry Goodlad]

Thank you so much all of you for your words about Elaine, she is very beautiful indeed.

[Terry Goodlad]

Wow Roeperson, we have good taste :) The key to any success we have had has been to have fun, do what we love to do, and I always endeavor to do it with the purpose of helping others and building things that people beyond ourselves will benefit from. We are just a couple of farm kids from Saskatchwan, that is directly inside the armpit of Canada. I was born in a town of 2999 farmers and one chinese guy that owned the national cafe. Elaine was born in a town one hour away boasting a population of 1500 and her dad still farms. We have also worked very hard to remember where we came from and who we are. I think that is very important for everyone.

My wife is beautiful and thank you all for noticing and saying so. I have a big stupid smile on my face reading your posts. I wish all of you could know her a little better, trust me, the surface stuff is just surface, there is a whole lot more beneath all that and its a million times more breathtaking.

[IslandGirl]

Hey Terry! :waving: Nice to see you here. My husband and I have met you several years at Carla's Fitness Fiesta. We are good friends with Rick. Awesome to have you here and sharing your insights about Figure and judging.

[IslandGirl]

My wife is beautiful and thank you all for noticing and saying so. I have a big stupid smile on my face reading your posts. I wish all of you could know her a little better, trust me, the surface stuff is just surface, there is a whole lot more beneath all that and its a million times more breathtaking.

Yes, Elaine is absolutely a beautiful person inside and out. I know she is a Christian and so am I. My daughter loves her! She got an autograph picture of her and Elaine wrote something very cute on it and my daughter was grinning from ear to ear.

[dvsness]

you just hit the nail on the head...steroid use in figure should not be neccesary. Many girls here would be surprised I think at how many top pro's DO NOT use anabolics or growth and do very well...its just assumed they all do so many upcoming stars follow that path in hopes of turning pro.

There are also lots of pro's that do use drugs and you can tell on their faces and bodies. I know at least 6 top IFBB pro's that went clean and their competitive careers took off...yes, they did better without the drugs.

If you need to take steroids or growth to be competitive in figure then you are either really doing something wrong or you may be in the wrong sport. Drugs will not give you balance or proportion. They will help you get big and hard and the message is clear that is not what they want.

If you are interested in getting anywhere as a model then avoid drugs completely as they mess with your skin and face. On our Boards Dr. Ryan is willing to speak freely about how drugs affect your skin and face from a scientific perspective. Its real and it is irreversible.


I think drug use in figure tends to be more prevalent amongst younger women who think it will make them look like their favorite pro more quickly, when they fail to realize that 90% of the time their idol is older and has been training considerably longer, hence muscle maturity.

[anglicanbeachparty]

Athletes think its called hard and soft.

Judges only consider hard and soft when the competitor has too much of one or the other. Judges look for a proportionate body, balanced conditioning, muscular definition meaning being able to identify where one muscle group ends and another begins. For overall appearance they look for how a body flows...small joints contrasted against and gently flowing into sweeping muscle bellies. The differential between small and big...tiny waist, wide shoulders, wide quad sweep producing an hour glass shape. Not overly stark, like a bodybuilder but a gentle flow from small to big.

If we think in terms of hard and soft then we are missing the point.

Think of it as being conditioned and athletic, balanced and proportionate. To achieve that perfect balance for your body you may have to be 15% bodyfat or 5% depending on your particular body and how it looks best. Gina Aliotti made the point best in her interview on Fitness and Figure Talk Radio. She is most proportionate at the levels of bodyfat she was at the Arnold. Jim Rockell felt she carried too much muscle but her shape is exceptional, there was no one better on that stage in that regard as this picture shows.

So, do what you have to do to make your body look the best it can with respect to those categories, proportion, balance, conditioning to look athletic but not muscular and forget about hard and soft. Getting hard is easy, just grind and diet, shaping your body for balance and to flow is the magic that will make you place higher. Bigger is not better, better is better. If you can achieve this you may not win, but you will look the best you can look.

I think that this is pretty profound. As an automotive engineer (by day, that is), working for one of the automotive OEM's ... I have seen many instances of our company trying to understand customer response, and paying attention to the wrong metric. I've seen all sorts of bizarre theories put forward to try and explain why one of our vehicles did not sell well, or why one of our competitors' vehicles did.

This was a good explanation!

[cray17]

Well...I made a post here a few days back, and I'm gonna man up and take it back. After reading what everyone else has said, as well as someone who emailed me to clarify what the letter is really all about (I won't mention his/her name), I think I understand what the IFBB is looking for.

All I'm asking for is if they are gonna lay this down, then it needs to stay that way. Consistency...that's not asking too much, right? ;)

Long story short, I'm sorry about my earlier rant.

[Terry Goodlad]

Hey Terry! :waving: Nice to see you here. My husband and I have met you several years at Carla's Fitness Fiesta. We are good friends with Rick. Awesome to have you here and sharing your insights about Figure and judging.

First, thank you so much.
Rick is an awesome guy, probably will never die of ulcers. Always happy and says nothing but kind things. I love Carla's show, I try to get there every year as she was the first I believe to do an all female show, just fitness and figure, and everyone said it would never work. I have done something with it for oxygen the past two years. In 2007 I covered Jr Fitness. Those little munchkins were off the chain!

Send me a picture if you can, I know I will recognize you for sure.

[Aletha]

Thank you all for a great thread. Roeperson and Terry made some great points about the use of drugs. I personally love the fact that I've gained every gaines naturally. I don't think I would have appreciate the journey. Beside, the Navy's "Zero tolerance" policy is a good hinderance. LOL.
Cheers

[cassierose]

I thought figure was suppose to be softer than bodybuilding...

Some ladies look like they can compete in as lightweight BB...

Seems like this was asked of figure gurls b4...

I compete in Figure and it seems to change year by year. Each federation is different too. It's frustrating to say the least.

[cassierose]

Okay. I mean NO offense to this thread...but it has been posted in 20 ways on a million forum boards and the end result is still the same- judging criteria for figure is inconsistent. Period. The bottom line is even if the judging WAS consistent, the NPC/IFBB is riddled with political favoritism and a pleothora of other issues. No matter who says what when, and no matter how many times we try to figure out what judges are looking for- its going to vary. And even if it didn't- politics would come into play. Its kind of like beating a dead horse. :) We can think they want a softer look, then as soon as we think that, they'll reward a hard physique and send us into confusion again. Time and time I've said the BEST thing to do is bring YOUR best package to the stage. Find the right amount of hard/soft and the right amount of muscle for YOUR physique and bring yourself to stage confident, poised, and strong. Do what works for you- :D

Thank you for posting this. That's what I plan to do. Bring MY best physique to the stage. I carry more weight than other girls, but that's my body. I will come in as lean as I can with full muscle bellies, and hopefully see my abs. It's a personal competition to me...from show to show...to see how much I can improve MYSELF...not how much I compare to the other women.:respect:

[CydneyWalker_etheric]

Thank you for posting this. That's what I plan to do. Bring MY best physique to the stage. I carry more weight than other girls, but that's my body. I will come in as lean as I can with full muscle bellies, and hopefully see my abs. It's a personal competition to me...from show to show...to see how much I can improve MYSELF...not how much I compare to the other women.:respect:

Here, here! I do not plan to come in "trying to look soft" from my first show. these competitions are about me. i want to improve what i looked like one year ago. just it is nice to placer higher and higher everytime. but it is going to happen the way the universe has planned it for me. all i can do is bring my best at every show.

we plan on going to the europa. i hope to meet you there. i am going to compete again in the Heart of Texas and do the Texas State Championships. I am so excited!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lil J]

Hey everyone.In my opinion I don't the new rules for figure.I just don't they should be changing it as they do. I do like a harder look better not to soft, but then again some girls that I was looking at that were soft looked very good. Its just becoming so confusing to me & alot of competitors. But If they want it that way then hey Ill do it & show my change, no matter where I place as long as they see I tried & worked my *ss off you know :awesome:

[Alli]

ahhhh I see this thread is getting revived....hahaha. I have to say that it doesn't matter how often we bat this topic around- figure is a very subjective sport to judge.... its terribly hard to say "this is what we're looking for, this is what we aren't etc etc". In a perfect world I'd love to see set guidelines- but think about it, say you decide to judge on the following:
1. Muscularity
2. Symmetry
3. Conditioning
4. Femininity
5. Poise and presentation

Well- what do those look like? What do they look like when you're comparing a 5'2" girl to a 5'8" girl for the overall? What do they look like when you take into account a variety of female forms and physiques? Because the bottom line is one competitor could carry more muscular but do it in a way that ings a pleasing figure physique to the stage. Another woman could carry a lot of muscular and verge on a bodybuilder look- a look that is not favorable to judges. And so it ends up bringing us back to start- which is that juding figure is subjective and dependant.

I think its truly up to the individual competitors to find what works best for your physique. Work on bringing feminity and symmetry to your physique- be aware of your body and try to gauge what amount of muscle is right to carry for your body. And ask for feedback from judges- take their opinions into account with your own and move forward from each show you participate in.

That's really all I feel you can do. I am a larger figure girl. I put on a decent amount of weight in my offseason and I am known notoriously for training heavy. I prefer it that way...and I refuse to change. But I need to wok on balancing out my muscularity with my conditioning and shaping so that I don't get on stage looking too big or "too muscular". Learn to work with your physique :)

[lil mama]

Alli, just wanna say u are a beautiful person inside and out with great valid points. keep rocking it lil lady and thank u for being U.

[Lil J]

:confused:
Its just becoming so confusing to me & alot of competitors. But If they want it that way then hey Ill do it & show my change, no matter where I place as long as they see I tried & worked my *ss off you know :awesome:


BUt no matter what I wont give up nopeee:respect:

[Alli]

Alli, just wanna say u are a beautiful person inside and out with great valid points. keep rocking it lil lady and thank u for being U.

awwwwwwwww thank you!!!!!!!!!!:angel:

[FemFlex]

will figure become softer again? listen to fitness and figure talk radio on bodysport.com.....so confusing!

http://www.bodysport.com/radio/shows/eight/player.html

Right, it's now what many people would consider 'bikini' competition.

The door is now *wide* open for a new 'physique' division.

[MsGuns]

Right, it's now what many people would consider 'bikini' competition.

The door is now *wide* open for a new 'physique' division.

It will be sponsored by hooter's...lol