Europa FBB--WHAT THE HECK?? (My Rant)

[Femphysiquefan]

OK, let me make a little disclaimer before I begin. One, I know exactly where I stand in the BB world: I'm just a fan and nothing more, one amongst many, and as such I don't make any particular claim to expertise when it comes to these sports. I only give my opinion, and nothing more. Two, EVERY female physique competitor, be they in bodybuilding, figure or fitness has my absolute support and admiration for what they have accomplished with their physiques. No criticism or critique that I make should ever be misconstrued as insulting or defaming in any way, and if it comes across as that I profoundly apologize as that was NOT my intent. Three, EVERYBODY who competes at a show, especially on the national or pro level, has my respect by default. You don't get to that level of competition without being the very best in the nation if not the world, so I say congratulations to ALL of them right from the beginning, and regardless of how they end up placing.

That being said, WHAT HAPPENED HERE?? Jennifer WAS in my top 5 for the show but not my top 3, and sorry, but she did NOT beat out Debbie. Debbie should have been the WINNER of LW hands down. I do not at all see how an FBB at Debbie's level of conditioning going into this show and based on her physique in prejudging does not even gain a birth in the final 3. The ONLY one that stood a chance of taking Debbie down was Klaudia Larson, which means by rights SHE should have won out of the top three the judges chose. Instead, they gave her a 3rd place and put Nicole over her?? Nicole is most definitely not chopped liver when it comes to this sport and proved it in Tampa, but in comparison to Klaudia's conditioning at THIS show?? Come on. As for HW, no big surprise there. I realize the comments made in regards to the symmetry problem with Kim, but I STILL thought that Kim had enough in her lower body to eck out a win against Sherry. I was wrong. Oh well, they both get their rematch at the Olympia, so congrats to them and Jennifer on making the big dance in Vegas.

Next, NO FBB OVERALL?? When on earth did they institute THAT change?? There is NOTHING on the website stating that there wasn't going to be an overall round. Did they simply forget, or can someone show me where they decided not to have an overall winner for this show?? It's just kind of frustrating when you've been watching a webcast for TWO DAYS, having to put up with connection blackouts and buffering problems and what not, only to find out that the round you've been waiting for this whole time simply ISN'T going to happen!!! Maybe the IFBB might want to TELL us fans that next time, and make it CLEAR that it's not happening!!

Finally, on a positive note, MAJOR, MAJOR kudos to bodybuilding.com for putting this show on the web. I can't imagine how much money it must cost them to put a show like that on so we can see it FOR FREE; THANK YOU, folks, for doing this. Now, if you can just try and make sure in the future that the connection doesn't go blank JUST BEFORE the ladies come on, you would save me and several others a heart attack, not to mention mental anguish. Thanks.

Just needed to rant, feel much better now. Comment if you want.

[Quadrablue]

Ok... let ME start by saying that I think all of these women are great. Props to all of them. I know how hard they work.

Fem I understand your confusion. I get confused too. I think the judges really want balance. They are not just looking at conditioning. Everything has to flow and no one body part can over shadow another. And even though you may think your fav has all the makings of a 1st place finish, they see things we just don't; especially if we are not there.

[KP DIVA]

OK, let me make a little disclaimer before I begin. One, I know exactly where I stand in the BB world: I'm just a fan and nothing more, one amongst many, and as such I don't make any particular claim to expertise when it comes to these sports. I only give my opinion, and nothing more. Two, EVERY female physique competitor, be they in bodybuilding, figure or fitness has my absolute support and admiration for what they have accomplished with their physiques. No criticism or critique that I make should ever be misconstrued as insulting or defaming in any way, and if it comes across as that I profoundly apologize as that was NOT my intent. Three, EVERYBODY who competes at a show, especially on the national or pro level, has my respect by default. You don't get to that level of competition without being the very best in the nation if not the world, so I say congratulations to ALL of them right from the beginning, and regardless of how they end up placing.

That being said, WHAT HAPPENED HERE?? Jennifer WAS in my top 5 for the show but not my top 3, and sorry, but she did NOT beat out Debbie. Debbie should have been the WINNER of LW hands down. I do not at all see how an FBB at Debbie's level of conditioning going into this show and based on her physique in prejudging does not even gain a birth in the final 3. The ONLY one that stood a chance of taking Debbie down was Klaudia Larson, which means by rights SHE should have won out of the top three the judges chose. Instead, they gave her a 3rd place and put Nicole over her?? Nicole is most definitely not chopped liver when it comes to this sport and proved it in Tampa, but in comparison to Klaudia's conditioning at THIS show?? Come on. As for HW, no big surprise there. I realize the comments made in regards to the symmetry problem with Kim, but I STILL thought that Kim had enough in her lower body to eck out a win against Sherry. I was wrong. Oh well, they both get their rematch at the Olympia, so congrats to them and Jennifer on making the big dance in Vegas.

Next, NO FBB OVERALL?? When on earth did they institute THAT change?? There is NOTHING on the website stating that there wasn't going to be an overall round. Did they simply forget, or can someone show me where they decided not to have an overall winner for this show?? It's just kind of frustrating when you've been watching a webcast for TWO DAYS, having to put up with connection blackouts and buffering problems and what not, only to find out that the round you've been waiting for this whole time simply ISN'T going to happen!!! Maybe the IFBB might want to TELL us fans that next time, and make it CLEAR that it's not happening!!

Finally, on a positive note, MAJOR, MAJOR kudos to bodybuilding.com for putting this show on the web. I can't imagine how much money it must cost them to put a show like that on so we can see it FOR FREE; THANK YOU, folks, for doing this. Now, if you can just try and make sure in the future that the connection doesn't go blank JUST BEFORE the ladies come on, you would save me and several others a heart attack, not to mention mental anguish. Thanks.

Just needed to rant, feel much better now. Comment if you want.


Awwww Jeremy!! I just want to give you a big hug!!! Ur a sweetie and I'm sure know one will be offended by your comments!!

I had Jennifer 1st....sorry, I think just overall she flowed better if that makes sense....I absolutely luv Debbie's physique and I don't understand why shee wasn't in the Top 3....I definitely would have been fine w/ Klaudia and Debbie in 2nd and 3rd and Nicole in 4th.

As for the overall situation....maybe that was a promoter issue. i.e. more prize money if you do an overall...Just like last week in Tampa it was only one class so maybe that promoter didn't have the resources to give prize money to 2 classes.

Figure...I'm a bit disappointed with the outcome. There is no way any one can make me understand why Meriza was not in the Top 5....I'll never understand that. I have 2 agree w/ Anne P...there was one young lady who did not look conditioned at all , but anorexic and IMO had no bizz in top 5. I I had Shannon 1st, Bernadette 2nd, Jelena 3rd and after that I was clueless w/ the callouts they were doing. OH well, we can't do anything about..it is what it is!! I hope Meriza doesn't get too discouraged b/c she's definitely getting sh*tted on by the judges!!!

BB.com did an excellent job. I think the reason there was so many connections problems b/c Pre-j'n was in the evening and there was alot of traffic. On a Saturday afternoon I'm sure there weren't as many ppl watching so we were all able to benefit.

[Shelly]

bottom line is i think the lighting sucked. period.


:)

[SBT]

I'm also still kinda shocked that there was no womans overall?!

As far as figure goes... :nuts:

[Siouxcountry]

bottom line is i think the lighting sucked. period.


:)

This is true.

The announcer even said they will do better with the lighting next year.

[KP DIVA]

This is true.

The announcer even said they will do better with the lighting next year.

No excuse....that's the same light that the men posed in. The judges got it right on the men side...with both the Open and 202 class. I think there needs to be a retreat for all the IFBB judges to discuss the women's side of the sport, it's clear that judges aren't really sure and all over the place w/ the scores.

[Greg B.]

I totally agree with you FemphysiqueFan.
The message is very clear they want softer girls. Debbie and Klaudia were clearly better than Nicole Ball and they were both looking incredible.
And even if Jennifer Sedia was looking great in my humble opinion she was a bit less complete.
That decision will certainly divide fans. They really should split female bodybuilding between two categories : one with the more classical eighties look with smaller girls and one with the really muscular look.
Personnaly I love both and I find all these ladies amazing but that's just not fair to place Nicole above Debbie and Klaudia.

[AnneP]

.
The message is very clear they want softer girls.

No, they don't want softer girls, they want that those hard girls are also balanced, with good basic structure and so on so on (no need to say every criterias..).

Thats what I think. And please FBB'ers, dont start to do the same as the figure girls - coming with soft butts to the show and thinking that its that what jugdes want to see.

[Greg B.]

You really think Nicole Ball is more balanced than the girls who finish after her ? She's pretty, well conditioned but her shape isn't as good as theirs.
In my opinion they are going the wrong way ...

[AnneP]

You really think Nicole Ball is more balanced than the girls who finish after her ?

I didnt say that, did I ? Noup. Actually I had both Klaudia and Debbie before her.

I just cant believe that they want to see softer girls in BB. Its ridiculous.

[itrain2]

Jeremy,

I don't remember where I saw it but I think Viki Nixon summed it up best on a thread about POLITICS ;) but hey there isent any of that in FBB:p

[joelster]

No, they don't want softer girls, they want that those hard girls are also balanced, with good basic structure and so on so on (no need to say every criterias..).

Thats what I think. And please FBB'ers, dont start to do the same as the figure girls - coming with soft butts to the show and thinking that its that what jugdes want to see.


Exactly.

They want girls who aren't blocky. They want small waists. They want upper body development to match lower body development.

They will score a smaller girl with a great taper and a good build higher than a girl with a thick waist and 17" arms.

Girls can come into a show with 4% bf if they want, but if their structure has some flaws they will not place well. I think the message has been loud and clear now.

[wildangel]

I will say this again..Nicole is cute, but she has NO legs, no back and no biceps..hmmm....but they keep putting her in TOP 3 everywhere. I think its SO sad to see ladies like Klaudia larson and Debbie be Knocked down below Nicole. They judges always told me " you would place higher if u brought your legs up..I have been competing 25 yrs and did over 36 shows. I NEVER placed higher than 3rd in a pro show..they said" because of my legs"..but Nicole Has NO legs and less in other areas as well...but they send her to the OLYMPIA 1st Pro show ever.Its just NOT fair to others who have put their heart and soul into BBing for Years and get places below where they deserve. Its heart breaking to see this happen time after time. NO disrespect to Nicole...I am just calling it like I see it and so many others see it. I judged contests for years and this would have NEVER happened...even on the amateur level.:nuts:

[Lisa]

I will say this again..Nicole is cute, but she has NO legs, no back and no biceps..hmmm....but they keep putting her in TOP 3 everywhere. I think its SO sad to see ladies like Klaudia larson and Debbie be Knocked down below Nicole. They judges always told me " you would place higher if u brought your legs up..I have been competing 25 yrs and did over 36 shows. I NEVER placed higher than 3rd in a pro show..they said" because of my legs"..but Nicole Has NO legs and less in other areas as well...but they send her to the OLYMPIA 1st Pro show ever.Its just NOT fair to others who have put their heart and soul into BBing for Years and get places below where they deserve. Its heart breaking to see this happen time after time. NO disrespect to Nicole...I am just calling it like I see it and so many others see it. I judged contests for years and this would have NEVER happened...even on the amateur level.:nuts:

I agree here...at last weekend Tampa, initially I thought Nicole should win, but after analyzing all the pics that were released later in the day, I changed my mind quickly. I agree she has no thickness in her legs & no bicep peak-you cannot even see any bicep on the rear double bi shots....as far as Kim goes her upper body is freaky big, nice small waist but her lower body, especially from the back view does not match. her calves are very odd, almost look like implants to me, especially in you compare last years pics....

So what I am trying to say here is they say they want balance, symmetry, I get that. I did not think Debbie was too blocky tho.


I love the hard well conditioned look so I also agree with Anne, please do not come in with soft butts/glute/ham tie ins....

Also congrats to the winner, but what happened to the NPC & everyone saying you have to "pay your dues" and not to expect to just walk into your first National or Pro show and expect to win (unless you are Isabelle Turell..lol!)..

Just my 2 cents....

[ibarramedia]

Here is Sioux's thread explaining why there is no overall winner.

http://www.siouxcountry.com/showthread.php?t=2632

[scottnva]

actually isabelle did do 2 national level shows b4 winning USA's but yeah i have a problem with penalizing someone just b/c they won a show the week before if thats the case just make it so if u qualified for the olympia then dont compete which would be stupid! thats my 2 cents :)


I agree here...at last weekend Tampa, initially I thought Nicole should win, but after analyzing all the pics that were released later in the day, I changed my mind quickly. I agree she has no thickness in her legs & no bicep peak-you cannot even see any bicep on the rear double bi shots....as far as Kim goes her upper body is freaky big, nice small waist but her lower body, especially from the back view does not match. her calves are very odd, almost look like implants to me, especially in you compare last years pics....

So what I am trying to say here is they say they want balance, symmetry, I get that. I did not think Debbie was too blocky tho.


I love the hard well conditioned look so I also agree with Anne, please do not come in with soft butts/glute/ham tie ins....

Also congrats to the winner, but what happened to the NPC & everyone saying you have to "pay your dues" and not to expect to just walk into your first National or Pro show and expect to win (unless you are Isabelle Turell..lol!)..

Just my 2 cents....

[Greg B.]

I didnt say that, did I ? Noup. Actually I had both Klaudia and Debbie before her.

I just cant believe that they want to see softer girls in BB. Its ridiculous.

I shouldn't have wrote softer what I was trying to say was that they wanted less muscular and massive girls.

Vicky Nixon perfectly resumed what I was thinking ;)

[joelster]

actually isabelle did do 2 national level shows b4 winning USA's but yeah i have a problem with penalizing someone just b/c they won a show the week before if thats the case just make it so if u qualified for the olympia then dont compete which would be stupid! thats my 2 cents :)

I am assuming you are talking about Nicole in your last sentence, if not, i'll retract my comment here. I am sure she planned on doing this show AT LEAST 6 months ahead of time. She is from Canada. She probably had her flight booked well in advance, entry fee paid, hotel booked, maybe a photo shoot or 2 laid out, etc...It's not like they enter a show(Tampa) that far out, fully knowing they are going to win and qualify for the "O", and then just blow off the rest of their plans(Europa). Many of them do this for a living ($$$income), the exposure, potential to reach out to new sponsors, magazines, photographers, it's all about making money while they can. Besides, the IFBB fines Pro athletes for pulling out of shows unless they give a real good reason, like an injury or whatever. Once they say they are going to do a show they have to commit to it.

[chris10000]

I will say this again..Nicole is cute, but she has NO legs, no back and no biceps..hmmm....but they keep putting her in TOP 3 everywhere. I think its SO sad to see ladies like Klaudia larson and Debbie be Knocked down below Nicole. They judges always told me " you would place higher if u brought your legs up..I have been competing 25 yrs and did over 36 shows. I NEVER placed higher than 3rd in a pro show..they said" because of my legs"..but Nicole Has NO legs and less in other areas as well...but they send her to the OLYMPIA 1st Pro show ever.Its just NOT fair to others who have put their heart and soul into BBing for Years and get places below where they deserve. Its heart breaking to see this happen time after time. NO disrespect to Nicole...I am just calling it like I see it and so many others see it. I judged contests for years and this would have NEVER happened...even on the amateur level.:nuts:
vicky... i can not believe.. thats the first time i m on your side :rolleyes:

but now your post reads as mine did in the past..
its not about lightweight or heavyweight ( i would have a problem also if aurelia would win a show even if she is a heavy )
its about muscles... bodybuilding should be bodybuilding and not a beautyshow..
i had debbie in front in tampa because i like more the fuller look , but also if klaudia would have won , i wouldnt have had a problem with...
but nicole ??... no way !!
only a nice face shouldnt win a pro show.
remember we are talking about what should be the elite of female BODYBUILDING !

[powergirl]

i agree, bodybuilding is about complete muscular development. if nicole had a complete physique AND the x-shape then i'd agree with her placing. however she lacked all if any detail in her back (that 3D effect), she had little rear delts and thin flat looking legs. kudos to her for all her hard work but i don't believe she has a "complete" physique with every little muscle popping out. again, its not about SIZE, its about a fully developed physique, tight conditioning and beautiful shape. the last 2 pro shows have had some very disturbing judging IMHO

[saiyajinali]

First I am going to say that I am Debbie B’s guy. Second I am going to say that even though I’m her biggest fan, but I’m also her biggest critic. If she is not on, I’ll be the 1st to tell her she’s not on & I have the scars to prove it LOL… But seriously folks I have been looking at different pics from different sites & I have seen all of the top 4 girls in person with the exception of the newbie Jennifer. And I totally think the judging was off on this one… Nothing personal against Jennifer but she got what I call a “pro debut gift” This is a term I have coined that male & female competitors get when they show up in good or decent shape & they beat out seasoned pros in their first pro show. And a lot of times they don’t deserve it either.. It’s almost like some kind of initiation practice where they try to encourage newbies to compete in the pro ranks if the “bring it” in their first outing. I am trying to be unbiased in my opinions because all 4 of these girls who are top notch athletes by the way, but they all have flaws & weaknesses. And looking at all these flaws & strengths, I would have had the top two placers as Klaudia & Debbie.. It could of went either way between those two. These two represent the more streamlined, muscular, but still feminine look what female bodybuilding should be. They have good muscle on their frames, but not too much. And the conditioning is amazing. I know conditioning isn’t everything, but if this is bodybuilding, a competitor should be rewarded for refining their physique. And you only get this by competing a lot & coming in tight. Every time you get better. Now compare Jennifer to these two girls. Yes she has decent shape, but its not top 5 Olympia shape, & not that much better than the other girls in the top 4, if you know what I mean. Now you look at the refined & conditioned look that Deb & Klaudia has & compare this to Jennifer. There is no comparison.. Now when Jen keeps doing this & dials it in good, my opinion will change & it will be a different story, but at this show she got a gift…
And as for Nicole.. Nicole I hope when you see me in Vegas you don’t deck me LOL(Nicole is a cool girl who doesn’t have the cockiness & arrogance that many bodybuilders have a tendency to have & I like that), but I don’t agree with the way the judges are always putting her over these other girls. Like I said everyone in the top 4 at this show has flaws, & this goes for Nicole too. She has great lines, good caps on her shoulders, great separation in her quads. But she lacks size in her quads & in her overall physique. She has that “runway model gap between her quads” because of a lack of inner thigh thickness that I would never thought I would see in pro bodybuilding. If she could add 5lbs of muscle to her frame I think it would change a lot in a good way.. I was looking at Nicole standing next to Debbie in the relaxed pose in the lineup & I though to myself there is no way in hell Deb should of took fourth to Nicole’s second.. I know Debbie is my girl, but I truly feel like she DOESNT get the respect she deserves from the judging panel... Example, in Tampa they initially didnt even call her out in the 1st round of callouts & they called out 4. For some reason they noticed her after they were comparing the initial four & decided to throw her & Annie R. in the mix, to make six. When they started comparing them, that's when Debbie moved up to spot number three in the finals. but my point is that their initial judgement was to not even look at her..That is an unbiased opinion… I don’t know if the judges need to have a big prayer meeting & discuss some guidelines because the judging is no very standard & I am seeing these girls hopping form one leg to the next like they are playing a sick game of Simon Says because they don’t know what to do & how to come in..
Just my opinion…

[debbiebramwell]

I first of all want to say that I love all the girls on a personal level....not one girl is tooting her own horn or picking herself as a winner.....but I personally after seeing pics would have placed klaudia and I first and second at the tampa show and europa show...we are both so different and have our strong points so it could of gone either way for me...I am not sure why the judges dont like me(they do and dont...)I thought we were supposed to be judged on symmetry, conditioning, presentation,balance, stucture, posing etc..... I know I dont have tiniest waist and I have a big muscle butt(hehehe)but thats what maks me feminine(girls with no hips or butt are more boyish looking..I think)oh well....I will continue to enjoy the journey and do what I love while helping others...I just pray they judging is more fair in the future for all of us girls....thanks everyone for your support and love! you rock! :rolleyes:

[Siouxcountry]

I first of all want to say that I love all the girls on a personal level....not one girl is tooting her own horn or picking herself as a winner.....but I personally after seeing pics would have placed klaudia and I first and second at the tampa show and europa show...we are both so different and have our strong points so it could of gone either way for me...I am not sure why the judges dont like me(they do and dont...)I thought we were supposed to be judged on symmetry, conditioning, presentation,balance, stucture, posing etc..... I know I dont have tiniest waist and I have a big muscle butt(hehehe)but thats what maks me feminine(girls with no hips or butt are more boyish looking..I think)oh well....I will continue to enjoy the journey and do what I love while helping others...I just pray they judging is more fair in the future for all of us girls....thanks everyone for your support and love! you rock!

Debbie just keep being your awesome self! A pro win is in your future! :cool:

[joelster]

I first of all want to say that I love all the girls on a personal level....not one girl is tooting her own horn or picking herself as a winner.....but I personally after seeing pics would have placed klaudia and I first and second at the tampa show and europa show...we are both so different and have our strong points so it could of gone either way for me...I am not sure why the judges dont like me(they do and dont...)I thought we were supposed to be judged on symmetry, conditioning, presentation,balance, stucture, posing etc..... I know I dont have tiniest waist and I have a big muscle butt(hehehe)but thats what maks me feminine(girls with no hips or butt are more boyish looking..I think)oh well....I will continue to enjoy the journey and do what I love while helping others...I just pray they judging is more fair in the future for all of us girls....thanks everyone for your support and love! you rock! :rolleyes:


What did the judges say you have to work on? Did you get to see the scoresheets?

[MsGuns]

I spoke w/ Beni Lopez and she missed 5th by 2 points...
But she was still happy w/ her placing....

[powergirl]

debbie, i think you looked great at the show, one of your best presentations ever....

beautifulllllllllllll triceps/arms btw!!

keep strong...

[lil mama]

I spoke w/ Beni Lopez and she missed 5th by 2 points...
But she was still happy w/ her placing....

:kiss:your so sweet G.....and u know Debbie is a Beautiful woman and she looked so beautiful and she had such excitement and energy backstage, she was roaring to get out there and preform, I think she is and was awesome up there. way to go Debbie and yes she should have been higher., for sure the pics and video show her to be very symmetrical and well proportioned and she was looking mighty fierce.;)

[wildangel]

Chris..You are funny! Glad we agree this time:)

Debbie ..you are ONE CLASS ACT girl! U and Klaudia Should have been 1st and 2nd. I have been saying this ALL over the place..every chance I get! LOL! I have said..again and again..Nicole is CUTE. Cute should NEVER win overalls in BBing. Period. I was told for YEARS that my legs were to small for my upper body..." thats why u dont place higher" LOL!! Well then..please explain WHY this has happened in 2 shows in a row?? After 26 yrs of BBing and competing will NEVER figure this one out. Very sad and heart breaking to say the least.

NO disrespect to ANYONE...I am just trying to understand the judges.....Debbie and Klaudia you Both deserve this ticket to Vegas BIG TIME!! Now go out there and show em girls!!!
Mucho love & Respect!!
:awesome: