Appetite Suppression supps ??

[figurfanatik]

was wondering on member thoughts/experiences with appetite suppression supplements.. I was told synephrine.....hoodia..... or the fat burner Venom Hyperdrive...anyone have any experiences with these ?? Are they a waste of time ??? I have taken lipo 6 and hyroxycut hardcore which did not seem to help with suppression of my appetite ...... Thanx : )

[DanielleA]

buy an ephedra based fatburner/thermo, and drinks LOTS of water. You can find plenty of products with ephedra online if you google it.

[NPCFigure 40]

I have tried Hoodia....It did not work for me....

[mmspencer24]

Hoodia only worked for me for a short time. Maybe an hour or two. Helped me durning my long nights working at the mall during the hoildays from wanting to eat everything in sight since they were cooking all kinda of sweet smelling things for the holidays

[Erik]

buy an ephedra based fatburner/thermo, and drinks LOTS of water. You can find plenty of products with ephedra online if you google it.

I'll second this.

Ephedrine/caffeine is probably one of the better anorectics. Still, make sure you're reading the contraindications for use before deciding to use it.

[figurfanatik]

ok I will check that out I have never taken ephedra not sure if it was worth it due to the health risks....

[Blondell]

E/c and hoodia both work well for me. The problem w/ hoodia is that you have to buy quality stuff. Otherwise, you may be left w/ nothing but a lighter wallet. Delmar Labs hoodia is my preferred brand. :)

[figurfanatik]

Sounds good !!! does anyone have any advice as far as deciding to take ephedra based supps ??? I am kind of leary just b/c I havent tried them before maybe I am being overly concerened with there side effects ?

[Blondell]

For ephedrine, I use Bronkaid which can be bought at most drugstores. It requires you show I.D. to purchase it though.

For something w/ a blend, I prefer Lipodrene Original.

[dvsness]

Sounds good !!! does anyone have any advice as far as deciding to take ephedra based supps ??? I am kind of leary just b/c I havent tried them before maybe I am being overly concerened with there side effects ?

Some good reading:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/haycock/ephedrine-and-beta-adrenergic-receptors.htm

http://www.drumlib.com/dp/000006.htm

Dosing based on 20 or 25 mg ephedrine HCL pills (or ephedrine sulfate)

Note: 1E = 20 or 25 mg ephedrine
and .5E = 10 or 12.5 mg ephedrine

I am assuming caffeine tablets of 200 mg. So 1C = 200 mg, .5C = 100 mg

The caffeine tablets do not break in half well, approximate is fine.

A pill splitter works well on the ephedrine (can get at any pharmacy).

Day 1 - This day you just take 1 dose to test whether you are hypersensitive to ephedrine (very rare). The dose will be .5E .5C
- symptoms of fast heart rate, and slight jitters are normal - like the feeling you get from having a lot of coffee.

Day 2-3 - You take 3 doses of .5 E .5C minimum 4 hours apart. I suggest keeping it so your last dose is at least 6 hours away from your bedtime.

Day 4-7 - Your dosing will be 1E 1C, .5E .5C, .5E .5C That is, you take full dose for your first dose only.

Day 8-14 - 1E 1C, 1E 1C, .5E .5C

Day 15 and onward - 1E 1C 3x/day

If you have trouble sleeping, keep your last dose 6-8 hours pre bed and/or decrease to 2 doses per day.

http://www.hotnfit.com/ecstack.htm

[DanielleA]

Most of the "dangers" about ephedra are a myth. Of course, if you have heart problems or are going to dehydrate yourself and let your body temperature get out of control, you can have serious problems.

Ephedra is a proven effective fat burning tool, used in a stack as Vanessa pointed out.
If I'm not mistaken, it has also been proven to be muscle-sparing, so it's very useful for those of us who compete.
Vanessa or Eric, correct me if I'm wrong on that - thanks!

[dvsness]

Danger is often synonymous with Dosing. If you look at published studies, often times the dangerous sides coincide with dosage way above normal range, and often administered through IV. So unless you're shooting up with stims, just taper up to assess tolerance and you should be fine, barring pre-existing medical conditions, in which case it is wise to consult with your MD.

[JenFerFigure]

:popcorn:

[figurfanatik]

Great,
Thanks all for your input !!!!!

[Delphene Balan]

First understand 'why' your appetite is strong. If your body is looking for comfort via SLEEP and you ignore the signals and stay up, it will be like saying, "Hmmmph, so you aren't going to comfort me by getting me some sleep? then I will seek comfort through food".

The other reason we have a strong appetite is because there may be too much glucose still in our blood from previous meal.

L-Glutamine is FREAKIN' AMAZING at ushering in this left over glucose and shoving it into the muscle cells thus alleviating hunger. Glutamine is best taken on (drum roll please) an empty stomach. so 2 hours after your last meal or before you go to bed and for sure when you wake up in the morning and do say, cardio on an empty stomach. Gives energy for the workout AND you dont' feel hungry even if you did prior to starting said cardio. :awesome:
LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS STUFF! coined as an insulin mimicker and stabalizes blood sugars. Best thing is it can be taken at night and doesnt cause us to stay awake like the Eph/caff stack would. :awesome:

[want2blean]

First understand 'why' your appetite is strong. If your body is looking for comfort via SLEEP and you ignore the signals and stay up, it will be like saying, "Hmmmph, so you aren't going to comfort me by getting me some sleep? then I will seek comfort through food".

The other reason we have a strong appetite is because there may be too much glucose still in our blood from previous meal.

L-Glutamine is FREAKIN' AMAZING at ushering in this left over glucose and shoving it into the muscle cells thus alleviating hunger. Glutamine is best taken on (drum roll please) an empty stomach. so 2 hours after your last meal or before you go to bed and for sure when you wake up in the morning and do say, cardio on an empty stomach. Gives energy for the workout AND you dont' feel hungry even if you did prior to starting said cardio. :awesome:
LOVE LOVE LOVE THIS STUFF! coined as an insulin mimicker and stabalizes blood sugars. Best thing is it can be taken at night and doesnt cause us to stay awake like the Eph/caff stack would. :awesome:

This sounds pretty awesome. I think I might give it a try. Thanks for posting this info!!!:D

[dvsness]

Glutamine is a staple of mine year round.

[want2blean]

Glutamine is a staple of mine year round.

What brand would you recommend? Is it a product where its better to pay more to get the better quality stuff?

[dvsness]

What brand would you recommend? Is it a product where its better to pay more to get the better quality stuff?

Since I'm a Prolab athlete, I use Prolab of course. But I used their supplements before being sponsored since they are cGMP compliant and have rigorous testing standards for QA/QC. Pure Glutamine should be flavorless, colorless and odorless.

[want2blean]

Since I'm a Prolab athlete, I use Prolab of course. But I used their supplements before being sponsored since they are cGMP compliant and have rigorous testing standards for QA/QC. Pure Glutamine should be flavorless, colorless and odorless.

Thanks, and sorry one more question.....how do you take and how often?:)

[dvsness]

Thanks, and sorry one more question.....how do you take and how often?:)

I take it immediately PWO year round, tsp in the mouth chased with water. When I can remember I also take it before bed, and during prep when/if I do morning cardio I take it upon waking.

[want2blean]

I take it immediately PWO year round, tsp in the mouth chased with water. When I can remember I also take it before bed, and during prep when/if I do morning cardio I take it upon waking.

Awesome thanks a bunch!! :D

[Delphene Balan]

Good glutamine should dissolve really well and sorta resembles baking soda in chrystal lite but I have even put it in diet ginger ale and it is tasteless and works great at dissolving. i also have the capsules for convenience. Not as much value (dollar wise) but still great for on-the-go and travelling so much.

[jenscats5]

Since Ephedrine is banned in my org, I can't take it.....I've tried Dietex for appetite control and while it didn't really kill my appetite it helped reduce cravings somewhat. When I'm dietiing I also drink Xtend in between meals (2-4 scoops in water) which has Glutamine in it and it also helps suppress my appetite. Plus the fruity flavors (Watermelon, Lemon, Orange & Green apple) are all very tasty.

My fat burner (Thermorexin) helps as well with appetite control a little.

[want2blean]

Good glutamine should dissolve really well and sorta resembles baking soda in chrystal lite but I have even put it in diet ginger ale and it is tasteless and works great at dissolving. i also have the capsules for convenience. Not as much value (dollar wise) but still great for on-the-go and travelling so much.

So I finally got around to buying some Glutamine this weekend. I took it first thing this morning before my cardio. I also plan on taking PWO in the evenings after I do my lifting workout. I am excited to start using such a great supp. Thanks again everyone for the valuable information. :bowdown:

[Delphene Balan]

I KNOW! its the catz ass! when people say that supplements don't work, they are obviously people who go to buffets and hit drive-thru burger joints on their way home. I agree, supps don't work for them as their body is just too saturated in glucose....but for those of us dieting, these aids can make all the difference between going to bed hungry or getting thu early cardio sessions hunger-pain-free.:awesome:

[Qubabe]

So I finally got around to buying some Glutamine this weekend. I took it first thing this morning before my cardio. I also plan on taking PWO in the evenings after I do my lifting workout. I am excited to start using such a great supp. Thanks again everyone for the valuable information. :bowdown:


Keep in mind Glutamine is useless in sparing muscle like all the other BCAA's. It is the best used for strengthening immunity. Always take BCAA's on an empty stomach. It's the only way they will actually be absorbed.
If you are not dieting Xtend is a great tasting product that is loaded with BCAAs. They make great flavors. Drinking it first thing in the morning and while doing your cardio will definately give you more energy and subside hunger pains.

[want2blean]

Keep in mind Glutamine is useless in sparing muscle like all the other BCAA's. It is the best used for strengthening immunity. Always take BCAA's on an empty stomach. It's the only way they will actually be absorbed.
If you are not dieting Xtend is a great tasting product that is loaded with BCAAs. They make great flavors. Drinking it first thing in the morning and while doing your cardio will definately give you more energy and subside hunger pains.

Awesome thanks for the great info. I have learned so much just being on this board for such a short time!!! I will look into the Xtend stuff it sounds awesome. Thanks again any info is much appreciated. :D

[Erik]

Keep in mind Glutamine is useless in sparing muscle like all the other BCAA's.

Are you saying that BCAAs are not protein/muscle sparing?


It is the best used for strengthening immunity. Always take BCAA's on an empty stomach. It's the only way they will actually be absorbed.

Actually, of all the protein you take in, the majority of what survives the digestion process (in terms of getting trough the SI, liver and into the bloodstream) is the BCAAs.

A large amount of ingested protein is used by the small intestine for hormone and protein synthesis itself. Most of the amino acids that reach the liver are catabolized with the notable exception of the BCAAs which make it through and are metabolized primarily in muscle.

Only about 25% amino acids ingested by way of protein actually make it tothe bloodstream and nearly 75% of these are the BCAAs.

So the body tends to show favourtism to the BCAAs; they don't have to be taken on an empty stomach (since they even make it through as a part of whole proteins).

[Qubabe]

Are you saying that BCAAs are not protein/muscle sparing?



Actually, of all the protein you take in, the majority of what survives the digestion process (in terms of getting trough the SI, liver and into the bloodstream) is the BCAAs.

A large amount of ingested protein is used by the small intestine for hormone and protein synthesis itself. Most of the amino acids that reach the liver are catabolized with the notable exception of the BCAAs which make it through and are metabolized primarily in muscle.

Only about 25% amino acids ingested by way of protein actually make it tothe bloodstream and nearly 75% of these are the BCAAs.

So the body tends to show favourtism to the BCAAs; they don't have to be taken on an empty stomach (since they even make it through as a part of whole proteins).

No, I said "Glutamine is not great for muscle sparing all others are good."
and YES they can only be absorbed efficiently on an empty stomach.

Both statements coming from the mouth of Dave Palumbo and I think he knows what he's talking about.

You are speaking of the amino acids coming from food. I'm speaking of amino acids from supplementation. There is a HUGE difference.

[dvsness]

You are speaking of the amino acids coming from food. I'm speaking of amino acids from supplementation. There is a HUGE difference.

Which is?

[Qubabe]

Which is?

He is speaking of amino acids in protein(food) which takes much longer to assimilate in the body than branch chain amino acids that are immediately used and absorbed.

[Erik]

No, I said "Glutamine is not great for muscle sparing all others are good."
and YES they can only be absorbed efficiently on an empty stomach.

Both statements coming from the mouth of Dave Palumbo and I think he knows what he's talking about.

You are speaking of the amino acids coming from food. I'm speaking of amino acids from supplementation. There is a HUGE difference.

Sorry, I misread the first sentence (re: BCAAs and glutamine)

But for the rest, appeal to authority?

Actually the molecule of leucine, valine, isoleucine, etc., etc are all the same regardless of source.

There aren't two different forms of leucine, etc. The molecular structures don't differ with source.

http://z.about.com/d/chemistry/1/0/8/2/leucine.gif

It's basic digestive physiology. A look through a physiology textbook will explain it similarly. :)

[Erik]

He is speaking of amino acids in protein(food) which takes much longer to assimilate in the body than branch chain amino acids that are immediately used and absorbed.

Not quite what I meant.

I am talking about the digestion of protein and amino acids. And the digestion process (whether it's fast or slow) is the same.

Everything still has to go through the same channels

Partial digestion in the mouth and stomach
Further digestion in the small intestine
Metabolism in the liver
Entrance into the blood

The BCAAs will obviously go through the process faster than a whole protein would, but the point is that the BCAAs make up 75% of the approximately 25% of the amino acids that survive liver metabolism. They get there regardless of whether a part of a whole protein, whey protein or BCAA supplements.

[Qubabe]

Not quite what I meant.

I am talking about the digestion of protein and amino acids. And the digestion process (whether it's fast or slow) is the same.

Everything still has to go through the same channels

Partial digestion in the mouth and stomach
Further digestion in the small intestine
Metabolism in the liver
Entrance into the blood

The BCAAs will obviously go through the process faster than a whole protein would, but the point is that the BCAAs make up 75% of the approximately 25% of the amino acids that survive liver metabolism. They get there regardless of whether a part of a whole protein, whey protein or BCAA supplements.

Are you saying that amino acids from food and branch chain amino acids hit the bloodstream at the same rate?

[Erik]

Are you saying that amino acids from food and branch chain amino acids hit the bloodstream at the same rate?

No, I didn't say that anywhere.

[Qubabe]

No, I didn't say that anywhere.

Then what are we conflicting over? because all I see is someone who puts words in people's mouths.

You went into your speal about amino acids when the discussion started with branch chain amino acids and how they should be taken.

This thread is suppose to be about helping this girl with suppressing her appetite.

If you are so knowledgeable why don't you give her a little advice instead of hijacking her thread.

[Suzanne]

i think what he was trying to say was that BCAAs do not need to be taken on an empty stomach

Erik what do you feel about glutamine as a supp? as there is conflicting info out there

[Meechel]

I am wondering why no one has asked why you are hungry to begin with?

I have been dieting 8 months and I am not hungry except about 15-30minutes before my meal is due and I drink more water or eat fibrous veggies.

:confused:

[Erik]

Then what are we conflicting over? because all I see is someone who puts words in people's mouths.

You went into your speal about amino acids when the discussion started with branch chain amino acids and how they should be taken.

This thread is suppose to be about helping this girl with suppressing her appetite.

If you are so knowledgeable why don't you give her a little advice instead of hijacking her thread.

Bad day today?

There is no putting words into anyone's mouth. You said BCAAs have to be taken on an empty stomach. Did you not? I didn't say you said that. You said it.

I just used a little digestive physiology to show that that is incorrect.

You also said that BCAAs from food are hugely different from BCAAs from supplements. I also showed you that that's incorrect.

As for not being helpful, I was being helpful. Correcting erroneous information. ;)

[Suzanne]

I am wondering why no one has asked why you are hungry to begin with?

I have been dieting 8 months and I am not hungry except about 15-30minutes before my meal is due and I drink more water or eat fibrous veggies.

:confused:

I am hungry dieting or not actually more hungry off season

i find when i stop being hungry not good sign means metab has slowed to lower cals

[Erik]

i think what he was trying to say was that BCAAs do not need to be taken on an empty stomach

You got it.

And to add to that, in my opinion, unless one is deep into a diet, has very low bodyfat levels and is not using whey protein, BCAAs probably don't add much in the way of protein sparing activity. However, in those conditions, I think they have their place.

Assuming high quality protein sources, you're getting 15-20% BCAAs right there and whey protein is up to 25% BCAAs. So if someone is consuming 150g of high quality protein, and even if it was without whey protein, they're getting a good 22-30g of BCAAs right there. I don't think adding a tsp here and there under these conditions will make much difference. It certainly won't make a difference when calories are higher since higher calories tend to improve nitrogen retention and are protein sparing.

Just my opinion though.

I'd save it for the late stages of dieting if at all.


Erik what do you feel about glutamine as a supp? as there is conflicting info out there

I think a lot of the conflicting information comes from the opposition of the research vs what the marketing behind many supplement companies says.

I personally don't think it's worth the money, but I know that many believe in it. It doesn't have any anabolic activity, it's not anti-catabolic, it doesn't help with fat loss, etc. At least according to the scientific consensus. It is however, great for the immune system. It might have more utility in the endurance training population.

I have heard anecdotally at least, that it can help with carb cravings but I don't have a clue what the mechanism would be nor if there is any research to suggest that to be true. If it works for someone for that purpose, then it's probably worth taking if hunger is a problem.

[Erik]

I am wondering why no one has asked why you are hungry to begin with?

I have been dieting 8 months and I am not hungry except about 15-30minutes before my meal is due and I drink more water or eat fibrous veggies.

:confused:

Oh it'll come; you'll see. :eat:

[figurfanatik]

Thankyou all for the wealth of information :bowdown:!!!!! I have used glutamine and Xtend before... But am not currently and I will try and add the glutamine back !! :)

[Meechel]

Oh it'll come; you'll see. :eat:

:p well I get hungry but only when my next meal is due but maybe when I get lower body fat eh?

or you talking bout the food you will be cutting from my next plan http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg312/Stragrabber94/ban.gif

[Amber]

Ive used Venom for appetite suppressent It works rather well!

[dvsness]

The BCAAs will obviously go through the process faster than a whole protein would, but the point is that the BCAAs make up 75% of the approximately 25% of the amino acids that survive liver metabolism. They get there regardless of whether a part of a whole protein, whey protein or BCAA supplements.

:kiss:


I personally don't think it's worth the money, but I know that many believe in it. It doesn't have any anabolic activity, it's not anti-catabolic, it doesn't help with fat loss, etc. At least according to the scientific consensus. It is however, great for the immune system. It might have more utility in the endurance training population.

I have heard anecdotally at least, that it can help with carb cravings but I don't have a clue what the mechanism would be nor if there is any research to suggest that to be true. If it works for someone for that purpose, then it's probably worth taking if hunger is a problem.

What do you think about glutamine induced enhancement of IL6 release and the new avenue of research which now regards some cytokines as myokines? IL-6 plays a direct role in leukocyte traffiking, glcuose disposal, and possibly how muscle contraction itself leads to fat metabolism.


http://www.bkpgroup.dk/Reprints/ReprintsPDF/Glutamine%20supplementation%20further%20enhances%2 0exercise-induced%20.pdf

http://www.bkpgroup.dk/Reprints/ReprintsPDF/IL-6%20is%20a%20novel%20factor%20mediating%20glucose% 20homeostasis%20during%20.pdf

http://www.bkpgroup.dk/Reprints/ReprintsPDF/IL-6%20release%20from%20human%20skeletal%20muscle%20d uring%20exercise.pdf

http://www.bkpgroup.dk/Reprints/ReprintsPDF/IL-6%20gene%20expression%20in%20human%20adipose%20tis sue%20in%20response%20to%20.pdf

[Erik]

What do you think about glutamine induced enhancement of IL6 release and the new avenue of research which now regards some cytokines as myokines? IL-6 plays a direct role in leukocyte traffiking, glcuose disposal, and possibly how muscle contraction itself leads to fat metabolism.

To be honest, I wasn't aware of the research, but now that you've pointed out some good reading, I'm off to take a look. Thank you.

[CydneyWalker_etheric]

I tried Miracleburn with certified South African Hoodia. It worked like a charm on the appetite suppression. One draw back is it took 2 months to get my appetite back after using it for about 1.5 weeks. My strength went away. I struggled with warm up weight! I wouldn't recommend it, unless you take one capsule in the early evening to help with cravings, which it worked great at that.

[fluteangel]

I have been using Venom Hyperdrive for the past 5 weeks or so and it was a lifesaver through this diet. I have not had any real cravings and very seldom have I truly been hungry. However, I have a big suspicion it's been making me nauseous and since I'm tired of feeling sick in and out of the gym, I didn't take it today and low and behold, I wasn't sick! However, I was incredibly hungry all day and had MAD cravings. So now I don't know what to do! I might go back on it on a much lower dose....it was just too nice to not crave stuff and be so hungry on a diet that's as awful as mine!